 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2013-08-31 05:34
Hello, the BBoard! My name is Sean, and I've been playing clarinet (soprano) for 9 years, mostly jazz and progressive metal with some classical, Celtic, and world music here and there. I also play 8-string guitar and sing, and I'm strongly interested in playing professionally. So I decided it's time to start upgrading and expanding my instrument arsenal.
My priorities in finding the right clarinet(s) are big sound, agile keys, and affordability. I’m prepared to drop $1500 on a really good Bb/A pair and maybe $1200 on a really good alto, but I’d have to be able to test it/them for a decent amount of time to commit to such a big purchase (I’m 18—I only have so much life’s savings).
I've played a Selmer BT Bb/A pair for the past 5 or 6 years and I think the power and tone are indispensable, but they're obviously very old instruments and have issues. The A is actually quite crippled and not very playable (any idea why? It can’t have been played nearly as much). The Bb’s keys are agile enough for 95% of jazz situations I've found myself in, but it has absolutely nothing up on a speedy metal guitarist. I love metal and I want to be able to really play those crazy riffs and tapping solos on clarinet as well as guitar.
I’d definitely prefer something newer or at least in great condition. Full Boehm or something with alternate keys and/or extended range would be fantastic—and that goes for both soprano and alto (maybe a basset horn would be more to my liking, I don’t know). And if I can get a good Bb/A or C/Bb/A set, I’d most likely choose it over an excellent single Bb. As I said, I’m very much a big-bore player, but I already have a BT, so for my second clarinet I’m willing to compromise a little on tone in exchange for something with a more nimble feel. I basically need a more versatile and responsive clarinet in better condition.
Hope you can help me out!
Thanks,
Sean
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-08-31 06:51
Hi Sean,
I don't want to rain on your parade, but I don't think you're going to find a top quality pair for $1500, when a decent Bb alone will cost from around there up. There are any number of reasons as to why your A isn't playable, and unless you have the expertise to diagnose and rectify the problem then the best thing would be to take it to a good tech and get it fixed. If you're comfortable playing the Selmers until you can afford to spend a bit more on replacements, then getting them put into good order might be the most cost-effective solution at present. You might look out for a pair of Leblancs, L7's perhaps. Leblancs are excellent instruments but since they're not Buffets the price has fallen off and you can get a lot of clarinet for your money.
Tony F.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-31 14:01
99.99999% of clarinet players play the Bb instrument. For the money you have to spend, you'll do much better with a good Bb and forget the other sizes.
It's possible to keep up with a metal guitarist on the crazy licks. All it takes is 10,000 hours of practice.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-08-31 14:01)
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2013-09-01 14:16
Thanks, guys!
I definitely don’t expect something “top-quality” at this point, and I’m going to practice for thousands of hours no matter what I play, so no rain taken
As for my A, I’m curious: is there any point of no return with an instrument in disrepair? I had my teacher (who repairs woodwinds) take a good look at it in one lesson, and he reckoned that at least a few of the issues it’s having may well not be reparable. Does this mean it was a mis-manufactured clarinet from the beginning, or that it has been so broken for so long that it’s too late, or could my teacher be able to fix it after all if I had him take it in for a major refurbishment? And, if successful, would the repair actually make a long-term difference, or would I keep needing the same expensive repairs over and over?
@Ken: It doesn’t matter to me what other clarinetists play—I seek range and versatility to the greatest extent possible, and “specialty” clarinets are one good way to fulfill that need. I almost never play in orchestras or other situations requiring me to play a particular instrument, if that’s what you're thinking.
I started out looking for Leblancs and L7s and ended up all over the place. I came across some items of interest on you-know-what-God-awful-site. Tony F, are any of these sort of what you had in mind?
[post edited as per our rules - no links or references to current auctions are allowed in postings. Mark C. ]
Some important questions came up during my internet clarinet-search rampage:
—For my particular needs and preferences, should I even bother with new clarinets, like at WWBW, Prowinds, etc.? My impression is that older models are a much better bet.
—Are Amati’s any good? There’s a new $1500 Full Boehm (615II) up for grabs, but my teacher is skeptical.
—Is “Clarinets Direct” a reputable organization, does anyone know? They seem very knowledgeable and provide a lot of good pictures, and they have some FANTASTIC vintage clarinets in great condition within my price range. I could get a Bb and an A for a combined $2500. A little steep for me, but totally worth it.
Thanks,
Sean
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-09-01 15:38
Hi Sean,
I bought an E13 from clarinets direct and I was impressed with the service I got and with the instrument. Personally I'd deal with them again.
With regard to your A, I don't know what level of technical expertise your teacher has, but my experience is that teachers are not necessarily the best people to advise on instrument problems. Just about any clarinet is repairable to a good playable condition, it just depends on how much you want to spend on it. Take it to a good tech and get a qualified opinion, you may be pleasantly surprised. Properly repaired to good playable condition it should last you for years.
The Soloist looks good, they're a seriously under-rated instrument, with a lot of the features of the more expensive models. The first-listed L7 looks good and the Alto looks as though it might be OK after some work. Amati's can be quite good, I've owned a couple and liked them and a friend plays a full- boehm which is very good indeed. Beware of older ones from the Soviet-era, the quality went right down then, but once the Soviet Union collapsed it came back up again.
Unless I won a major sweepstake I wouldn't spend money on a new instrument. The first time you take it out of the case the value drops by about 40% and it will still need sorting out to make it usable. There are superb used instruments out there, and even if you end up with one that doesn't meet your requirement you probably won't lose money on it when you sell it.
Tony F.
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2013-09-02 02:39
Thanks, Tony!
I’ve signed up for a Full Boehm A from Clarinets Direct, and I’m very happy with that. I’m just trying to narrow down my options for a Bb. After the A (and my new guitar) I’ve got a little more than $1250 left in the bank.
Since I’m apparently not allowed to post links,” I guess I’ll just have to list the Bb possibilities I’ve so far come across (in no particular order):
—Noblet “Artist” Full Boehm, excellent condition, $1230
—Selmer “CT”, excellent condition, $1230
—Amati “615II”, almost-new, $950
—Leblanc “L7”, almost-new condition, $1250
—Leblanc “LL”, excellent, $900 (no returns. . .)
—Leblanc “Classic”, excellent, $615
—Leblanc Noblet “45”, excellent, $200
—Leblanc Noblet “40”, excellent, $400
—Leblanc 7-Ring w/ Stubbins, excellent, $775
—Selmer “Series 10”, excellent, $200
—Selmer “Series 9”, excellent, $1275
—Selmer “Series 9*”, excellent, $1240
—Buffet Crampon “R13”, early 1960s, good, $1100
—Buffet Crampon “R13”, 1956, excellent, $1225
—Buffet Crampon & Cie, 1905, excellent, $200
As I said, I’m more in the market for Full Boehms and clarinets with easy and agile “response,” I believe the term is. I play a BT, so I don’t especially need another jazz horn, but larger bore clarinets are more likely to feel good to me.
Thanks,
Sean
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-09-02 04:55
>> 99.99999% of clarinet players play the Bb instrument. <<
This is not a good enough reason to also do it. You might end up not doing anything you want to if you do. A probably smaller % of all people even play clarinet, so you could just not even play...
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-09-02 06:22
Hi Sean,
If you're able to play-test them, I'd consider the R13's first. I'd probably be inclined to pass over the 1905 Buffet, for no better reason than that there have been some major advances in technology since then. The Amati sounds like it's quite recent, so that might be worth a look, with the advantage that being full-boehm, it would be a good match with your A. good luck, anyway.
Tony F.
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2013-09-02 15:54
Very good point, clarnibass! I totally agree.
I'll keep searching the God-awful-internet-auction-site-that-shall-not-be-named and the internet in general to see if there are stores like Clarinets Direct that I feel safer buying from.
I'm gonna see if I can temporarily borrow some of my parents' funds in order to be able to play-test the Amati, the 1960s R13, etc. side-by-side. I'll also play-test at all the stores in my area I can find, which is more likely not to involve restocking fees and return shipping costs.
Thanks for all your help, Tony F! Perhaps you'll hear back from me with more questions, but hopefully a resolution!
Best,
Sean
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2013-09-03 22:14
I wonder why you're seeking an A if you don't play orchestral works. Wouldn't an Eb give you a much wider tonal range, both in timbre and pitch?
Post Edited (2013-09-03 22:15)
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2013-09-07 04:34
Bennett:
For jazz especially, I would definitely take an alto over an A, but that search is ongoing. I found an A I could hardly have dreamed to hope for, so I went with that rather than wait around for a decent alto (of comparable price) that I may not find.
On the other hand, I like playing metal riffs. And when I'm trying to keep up with a lightning-fast guitar in some awkward tuning, it GREATLY helps to have an A to be able to play those riffs in a key that doesn't require extreme amounts of pinky-work and such. (It's either an A, or constantly retuning the guitars (which is bad for them), or 3,000+ extra hours of practice that may get me nowhere half of the time because some fingerings are just impossible on the clarinet.) And with an A rather than an alto, I don't sacrifice the attention-grabbing high range of the Bb.
---Sean
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