 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-08-22 21:26
What are the characteristics of a reed that is too hard? For example, if you're playing a #4 reed, how do you know if you'd be better off with maybe a #3?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-22 22:06
If you're finding it stuffy and resistant in the lower register, especially (lowest to highest) B with the standard fingering, C, C#, E and F# with the side key fingering which will sound all hissy, also you'll find you may not get a good clean start to the note or a good clean staccato (especially in the upper register where staccato is more difficult) and you'll soon get a sore lip, aching jaw and just get tired of playing as you're finding it too much of a struggle.
Are you thinking about playing on floorboards? Play on the strength that's right for YOU and not what everyone else plays on - it's not a competition.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-22 22:50
If reed is too hard, your embouchure gets tired. So do your blowing muscles.
Reeds are cheap. Try several at #3, #3-1/2 and #4 to find out what works. Have someone with good ears listen.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2013-08-22 23:05
A new reed out of the box should play at approximately the desired strength which feels comfortable without excessive blowing. Breaking in the reed will then refine the sound and make the reed less susceptible to being water logged
If your reed is too hard out of the box, go down by successive 1/2 strengths until you find your comfort zone.
A reed that is too hard does not give a dark sound. It gives an unfocused sound
...GBK
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-23 01:20
GBK wrote:
>
> If your reed is too hard out of the box, go down by successive
> 1/2 strengths until you find your comfort zone.
>
Or 1/4 strengths, depending on the brand.
Karl
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-08-23 16:43
I'm going to re-word my question...and add a bit of an explanation. I sit by a bass clarinet player whose tone sounds very raspy and dry...could that be an indication that the reeds she's using (#4...because that's what she's "always used") are too stiff? Also, she won't play sixteenth notes or anything in the higher register...I assume it's because of the reed but would like more information before talking with her (we're friends, so this could get a bit tricky). Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-23 16:55
Sounds like her embouchure isn't all that well developed and she's compensating by using hard reeds to try to get a good tone, but sacrificing everything else in the process.
Has she got a teacher? They really ought to go back to basics with her as well as drop down reed strength to a 3 or even a 2.5, then build things up from there.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-23 17:17
Roxann wrote:
> ... I sit by a bass clarinet player whose tone sounds
> very raspy and dry...could that be an indication that the reeds
> she's using (#4...because that's what she's "always used") are
> too stiff? Also, she won't play sixteenth notes or anything in
> the higher register...I assume it's because of the reed...
Could be too hard a reed, could be a poor mouthpiece, could be that the instrument is in crummy condition - especially if it's a school-owned instrument that hasn't been well maintained. Not wanting to play in the upper register could be because it's a less expensive single register key bass that isn't well adjusted. It could be a number of things in combination.
Does this girl play Bb clarinet? How does she sound on that?
The best thing for her to do if she wants to play better is for starters to find someone who plays bass competently and have them play-test the equipment. A trip to a good tech (whether it's her instrument or a borrowed one, if she is using it gratis) would be a good thing. She should look carefully at the mouthpiece to make sure it isn't damaged. A softer reed might help if all else is optimal - unless she's playing on a fairly closed, long facing an unadjusted #4 might be a little stiff.
But the big caveat is "if she wants to play better." I've never completely understood why students who have these (fairly typical) problems on bass clarinet sometimes seem so content to leave things as they are and not try on their own initiative to make playing the instrument easier for themselves.
Karl
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Author: DougR
Date: 2013-08-23 18:38
This is a very interesting post for me, because I'm in the process of transitioning down from #4 strength reeds on bass to plain ole Vandoren blue box 3-1/2s. I always thought bc "had" to use 4's, and always used a VERY forceful (i.e. really honkin') airstream to make them play, because the bass needed to project and you needed strong reeds to ward off that horrible wet flappy sound a lot of people get in the low register, or so I thought.
You get used to a strong honking airstream like that, a 3-1/2 reed is going to seem weak. But I'm learning to back off the air pressure while maintaining firm abdominal support at the same time. So far the 3-1/2s sound great--and while there may be less 'apparent' volume at times, the 'projected' volume (i.e. what listeners or an audience hears) is the same, or even improved, because the sound quality is better. And that wet flappy low register sound can be avoided by picking good reeds (duh!).
I'm sorry if this sounds like a lot of yibble yabble, I'm not articulating all this very well. Rather than jinking around with equipment, though, I think I agree that Roxann's friend might be well advised to take a few lessons with a professional bass clarinet player (possibly via Skype) with an eye specifically toward improving tone and tone concept (since to me it sounds like the chief issue here is tone concept first and perhaps equipment second).
I have no idea if people routinely teach via Skype (I know Keith Underwood does).
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-23 19:13
I've always suspected that, of all the things you probably *can* do over Skype, evaluating and diagnosing sound problems is one of the least likely to work well. I just heard a news report today on CNN over Skype that made the poor reporter sound like she has the world's worst lisp. When I hear people sing over a Skype connection, the sound is generally muddy and unclear. I don't know what the frequency curve is for a Skype transmission, but I doubt if it's really wide enough for good music fidelity.
A bass clarinet's chalumeau register should sound clean and clear, just like a Bb clarinet should in the same register. My teachers back in 1960s Philadelphia all played #5 VD (traditionals - the other models hadn't been invented yet) on all the clarinets, but I doubt if they played many, if any of them out of the box. There was always a good deal of balancing and more aggressive adjustment that eventually produced a controllable, clean-sounding reed. The philosophy was to start heavy so there'd be room to customize. For a long time as a student and young player I took the part about using #5s but missed really understanding the part about the adjustments. I'd balance the tip and then wonder why the bass felt so stuffy, especially above the break. I'm not a great bass player even now, but I became infinitely better the day I realized that if I wanted to play reeds out of the box and not spend the time on them that I routinely spend on soprano clarinet reeds (I no longer use #5s there, either), I was going to have to go down in the strength I bought. Once you reach that point, it's a matter of matching the reeds to the mouthpiece you're using.
But the clarinet (especially a bass) still needs to be working right to play easily.
Karl
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-08-23 19:34
I recently started playing Eb alto. I play 3.5 /4 reeds on Bb and Eb soprano but need to go down to a 2.75 on Eb alto to get a rich clear sound. The two bass clarinettists in my wind band also play on the same strength reeds.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-23 20:24
After playing everything from Eb to BBb contra in the West Point Band and other places, I've found that the bigger the instrument, the softer the reed.
For Eb (which I played in the Knoxville Symphony), I used Medium Hard (4-4.5) Vandoren Traditionals on a Selmer mouthpiece (C* as I recall). They were stiffer than those I used on Bb and had be, to keep the high notes in tune and under control. For Eb and BBb contra, I learned to use the softest reeds that don't make a flapping noise on the lowest notes. Anything harder resulted in wasted energy.
For bass clarinet, I use reeds that are noticeably softer than those I use on Bb.
It's only my experience. YRMV.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-08-24 15:09
As always, GREAT feedback...thank you very much. Now, I need to figure out how to approach her with the information. I do know she's had the instrument to 2 different repair shops in town with the 2nd shop finally solving the issues she'd been having (used, not in great shape). I think that I'll start the conversation with, "I read something really interesting on BBoards this morning" and take it from there.
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