 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: broth71
Date: 2013-08-14 19:47
I am looking for an R-13 for a 7th grader that is in symphonics this school year. She currently has an E-11 student special and want to upgrade. I am having trouble with putting out 3k+ for a new one and wondered if there are any good resales in Dallas.
Rebecca roth
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Author: jacobhardy25
Date: 2013-08-14 20:04
Lisas clarinet shop is a great place to buy clarinets online. Shes very trusted and you can get a quality used r13. Just google lisas clarinet shop
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-08-14 22:37
Try H. Karlsson Woodwinds. She usually has a number of used but high quality refurbished r13's and others.
http://www.hkarlssonwoodwinds.com
She's in Dallas.
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Author: joe423
Date: 2013-08-15 01:05
Try encore pro! They have really nice refurbished clarinets and looks like you can pick one up around $1,700 looking at their website. That's where I got my Bb when I was in 8th grade and it's still going strong!
www.encorepro.org
1975 Buffet R13 Bb Clarinet
1968 Buffet R13 A Clarinet
Pyne Clarion Mouthpiece
Vandoren V12 3.5 Reeds
Vandoren Optimum Ligature
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-15 03:39
The further away something is from your face, the less important it is.
Therefore, your daughter will do MUCH better with a really good mouthpiece and barrel on her E-11. That will cost under $500, and even professionals will have trouble telling the difference. The price will come down to $200 if you get her a Fobes Debut mouthpiece and a barrel.
Walter Grabner usually has used clarinets at fair prices on his site http://www.clarinetxpress.com/forsale.html. He's really good and reliable.
Ken Shaw
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-08-15 05:15
Anyone know another place in Dallas, as the OP asked for?
I'm guessing that the OP is someone who would want to visit the shop and talk to a human in person. There are more shops than the one I mentioned in Dallas.
Ken-
Professionals can easily tell the difference between an R13 and an E11. I understand your point about the mouthpiece\barrel\reed etc. being more important. It's a leap to say that discerning people can't tell the difference beyond the barrel though.
James-
eBay is a source for decent used R13's. All of the ones that I've seen (and I've seen more than a few) require an overhaul to function properly (no matter what the auction says about how great it plays). Point being, expect to spend a little money getting the instrument up to speed.
To the OP: Start locally, DFW is a large area! If you don't find anything satisfactory, expand your search. You should find an ample amount to try in your area though.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-15 14:55
Nathan -
I put my handmade mouthpiece and barrel on my nephew's Vito, and nobody could tell the difference between it and my elaborately tweaked R13. Even I was surprised. There was of course some difference to me, but it was remarkably small.
Ken Shaw
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2013-08-15 15:36
I'm with you, Ken.
I have parents all the time wanting to upgrade their kids' instruments without knowing what "upgrade" means. Typically they have the fuzzy idea that a pro-level instrument will radically improve their kids' sound and technique, but they're not sure why. Most of their expectations are tied to price, model and maker, model/maker status, or what and how well the teacher plays, and that's about it.
For a parent who is willing to listen, I go the barrel/mouthpiece route every time (assuming that the kid's current instrument is adequate).
For those who have money burning holes in their pockets, I tell them not to expect much difference in the kid's playing with the pro models, and that a particular clarinet probably isn't forever; that the kid will likely want change clarinets as they mature. If they insist, I find the best horn I can for them.
B.
(Who had a student who'd played a year whose parents insisted that she have a Tosca clarinet and a $500 mouthpiece because that's what <principal in a major symphony> played...and traded music for soccer six months later.)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-15 16:40
My nephew broke my heart and traded clarinet for oboe. And then for Tae Kown Do. And then for Ultimate Frisbee. He's great at all of them, but still. . . .
Ken Shaw
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-08-15 19:07
Since you live in the Dallas area, why not call Tom Ridenour in Duncanville? While he won't have R13 models for sale, she might be surprised at the quality of a Lyrique 576 bc, and she can get that for around $1000 NEW. Then you would still have money left over if you want to experiment with barrels and mouthpieces.
Check out Tom's clarinets here:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2013-08-16 00:30
A few Texas band directors think their programs are so grand they necessitate only professional model instruments. Sad, but true. There was a time in this area that only students with R13's, Selmer Paris saxes, Haynes or Powell level flutes, Bach Stradivarius trumpets, and Conn 88H or better trombones were "worthy" of sitting in their groups. The downturn in the economy has changed some of that but it is still prevalent in some suburban school districts around Houston, Dallas, Austin, etc. where the economically advantaged parent can be coerced into thinking that this is reality. I would say that 99.9% of all high school students I serve have R13 or R13 Greenline clarinets. A few RC Prestige have graced my shop as well. Quite a few of these students also play Fobes SanFranciso, Hawkins, and Pyne mouthpieces. The student usually has a "marching" instrument. The E-11 is the most often brand of marching clarinet because it is what they used in middle school or junior high. Very few of these students will play in the university or college music programs. I know this by casual conversation with the parent and student as to what they are going to do after public school. I don't judge but think it's really an unnecessary expense. I agree with Ken. A good mouthpiece, ligature, and barrel will usually suffice.
Post Edited (2013-08-16 00:31)
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-08-16 01:11
Wow (no disrespect, rather in awe)...
I didn't get pro level instruments until after I graduated college and knew I would keep playing. Though I'm not sure I would've switched out instruments early in life, even if it was financially viable. I played on an Armstrong clarinet from 4th grade through high school. It wasn't a bad horn, though I'm sure a different mouthpiece (or just better reed/mouthpiece match), would've helped.
Through the years, my band teacher would step up reed strength and I could never understand why blowing until I was red in the face produced such a small sound. It wasn't until years later that I found out the problem was putting hard reeds on a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-08-16 01:36
From what JButler says, Texas sounds like the place to be if you're shopping for a used R13. Glad I'm not a parent there though. We'd lose 3/4 of our high school band students where I live, if their parents were expected to shell out that kind of money - especially for the 2nd and 3rd section students.
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Author: hgp_atx
Date: 2013-08-17 04:02
Getting an R-13 for a 7th grader is way too early. She needs to get good on what she has before she should upgrade and if she is only a year into playing clarinet, that is 4-5 years in advance. Im a Sophomore in high school, and i only got one (an R-13) about a month ago. Trust me if she is super motivated and thats all she does, the earliest I would upgrade the horn is the end of 8th grade but most of the motivation comes in high school and so i would not recommend upgrading the horn until Sophomore or Junior year in high school and that is if shes still committed. Because R-13s aren't cheap (new ones are $2900 at the lowest and used can still be pricey), you dont want to waste your money so you gotta be absolutely sure. However upgrading the mouthpiece is something I may do before upgrading the horn. I would recommend Brad Behn mouthpieces.
Hugh Pauwels
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Author: gwie
Date: 2013-08-17 05:41
I have bought used R-13's for students as young as 4th grade (they started playing in 2nd/3rd grade). There is no "too early." It all depends on the ability level of the student, the financial resources of the parents, and whether they benefit from the availability of a professional quality instrument. In both cases they already had good mouthpiece/ligature/reed setups.
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Author: halfshellhero
Date: 2013-08-17 12:53
I personally wouldn't put so much money into a seventh grader's instrument. Where I live, there are a whole lot of well meaning parents who buy a nice brand new pro or intermediate model for their beginning band students only to have the students quit within a year or two. Just to give you an idea: my beginning band had 30 something clarinets in my grade. By my senior year, there are MAYBE ten, only two of which are serious. Most of those students bought brand new horns (albeit student or intermediate models) You should seriously think before you get an expensive instrument so early. Unless the student is completely sure they are going to continue playing, I would just spend the money on a mouthpiece and barrel.
If you are going to go the used clarinet route (which is definitely more reasonable than new), ask the school band director and friends who recently dropped out of band if they know anyone who's selling. That's how I got my alto sax (Yamaha Advantage student horn bought new, used for one year, then sold to me for $50 - no damage aside from a couple scratches on the laquer). If that's a no go, you'd be surprised what you can find on Craigslist in your area. Obviously, be safe when you meet people or whatever, and don't buy the horn if they seem reluctant to meet up/let you play it before you buy it. That's where I got my R13 (again, only used for a year, pretty cheap price) and I'm really happy with it. Whoever you buy from, play it before you buy it. And some of the price postings on Craigslist are from reluctant parents who don't understand just how much the value of their instrument they bought new has depreciated. Get a feel for how much the instrument model/age/wear combination costs, and don't be afraid to try to talk them down a little, especially if there are pads to be replaced, adjustments to be made, etc.
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Author: halfshellhero
Date: 2013-08-17 12:58
Oh, and for some reason a lot of new players have the notion that a "pro" model automatically makes you a better player. It doesn't. At the most it will improve what you can do with your tone and the keys may offer slightly better facility. But unless it's in the hands of a capable player, a pro horn means nothing. There are plenty of people doing just fine on student and intermediate model wooden clarinets (maybe not so much on really cheap plastic models, but I wouldn't know as I've never owned a plastic clarinet), first chair all state, etc. etc. Don't fall into the trap of "expensive = better player"
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-17 14:35
Arnold Jacobs wrote that when a student complained about his tuba or mouthpiece, Jacobs would take it and sound just like he did on his handmade York tuba and mouthpiece in the Chicago Symphony. He said it was important to show the student what was possible on that particular tuba and mouthpiece.
A flutist told me that when he got a Haynes "entry model" flute, with covered tone holes, C foot and no hand finishing on the head joint, he took it to William Kincaid and asked whether it was good enough. Kincaid asked to take it overnight. The next day, Kincaid said that he had played the first half of a Philadelphia Orchestra concert on the flute and asked the student whether he had heard anything different. He hadn't.
When I was in high school, there were half a dozen Leblanc paperclip Eb and BBb contras lying smashed in a corner of the store-room. This was just the time that the Selmer Mark VI saxes came out, and they bought two altos, two tenors and a baritone for the swing band. The bari in particular was an amazing player. I monopolized it for about a year. The prices were so low that it didn't matter. You could get an R13 without a case for $99 if you knew someone who would be in Paris and go to the factory.
Today, a new R13 runs to serious money, you can't touch the Mark VI bari for under $7,000, and the current model runs well into five figures. And don't even think about the Leblanc contras.
On the other hand, student-level clarinets, including the plastic ones, are computer-controlled-manufacturing clones of the top models and play really, really well.
Ken Shaw
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-08-17 15:10
If I'm not mistaken (and I often am...), one of my favorite jazz clarinetists, the late Kenny Davern, gave up on wood clarinets and played either hard rubber or plastic horns and still sounded great, and could still hit the upper end of altissimo (at least double high D)!
Gary K
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Author: broth71
Date: 2013-08-20 13:12
wow, thanks everyone for the many comments! Many of you are right on, we live in an area where band is like a sport. We are a feeder school to a top ranking HS band.
My daughter's instrument is very nice and the price is right because we rent it. The suggestion for an upgrade came from the band directors and not having a clue about any of this, I assumed it was a next step for instruments. I will look at all the web sites suggested and call around, I really appreciate the information.
Upgrading the mouthpiece sounds logical so i will start there.
Thanks again!
Rebecca roth
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2013-08-29 12:38
Not clarinet related but thread related. This was posted on the repair board yesterday from a repair tech in the Alvin/Pearland area of greater Houston. I have his permission to post this here:
"I had a junior high student bring his Greenhoe trombone in for repair. I thought THAT was ridiculous, but then he told me that other kids in his junior high band also have Greenhoe trombones. This junior high director must be recommending them. Anybody else think this is ridiculous, or is it just me?"
Now a Greenhoe trombone costs $5800 for the cheapest model and the case costs and extra $200. I don't know think a student in the 6th, 7th, or 8th grade needs a $6000 trombone package but goes to show how some directors think.
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Author: Katfish
Date: 2013-08-29 13:47
I got an A R13 at the Paris factory with a double case in 1965 for 137.00.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2013-08-29 14:29
To jbutler's point:
Many band directors recommend the same gear for all the students. There's a school near me where all 5th grade clarinets (at the time; don't have any students from there now) were required to purchase intermediate wood Selmers (I think Buffet E11s were ok too) and Vandoren B45 mouthpieces.
Requiring the same set up for every student is, IMO, a mistake.
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