 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-04-30 16:19
Does anyone know of a written or published
cadenza for the Weber Concertino?
Clarinet Redux
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-30 16:39
Pamela Weston cites and shows a cadenza supposedly written by Heinrich Baermann for the Concertino in The Clarinet magazine, Volume 9 Number 3.
According to Weston, Fredrich Jahns had this cadenza inserted in the first edition (Peters) in 1814...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-04-30 19:31
You can also acquire that cadenza by purchasing the Weston edition. You can hear it played (and very well might I add) by Phillipe Cuper with the Orchestre de Bretagne. It's out of print though, but you can probably find it somewhere on the web.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2006-04-30 20:25
It's also included in the Henle edition, with some explanatory notes expanding on what GBK wrote.
Barb
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-05-01 03:54
Thanks OmarHo. It's interesting to see Karl L's
take on it. I've printed it out and soon no doubt
will be whipping out my own take on it.!
The whole site more than OK. The clarinet
students down there really hero worship Karl L.
Didn't Fredrick Fennel end up down there?
Clarinet Redux
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-05-02 01:28
In the Cadenza by Baermann Origanilly did he want us to tongue all that?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: musicman
Date: 2013-08-12 18:54
This was the first I had heard of a cadenza, at my old age!!! Anyway have 2 or 3 versions of this and none show it. If anyone has it available I would be interested in seeing it.
Richard
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: musicman
Date: 2013-08-12 23:36
In the wording it looks like Concerto 1 was the piece where this cadenza came from.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2013-08-13 00:07
The Henle Urtext edition of the Concertino has Baermann's cadenza.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-13 01:00
So the cadenza is definitely out of copyright. Can anyone scan the Henle cadenza or fix the link from OmarHo?
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-08-13 05:16)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2013-08-13 16:42
I think a cadenza should be improvised for the occasion by the performer, not written by someone else and just "parroted". It's the artist's chance to show off their technique and musical ability, not someone else's writing ability. In other words, play it be ear and have fun.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-14 00:57
To improvise a cadenza, it helps (read it's essential) to know what contemporary players did. That's why Historically Informed Performance specialists study, in the most meticulous detail, the examples found in old treatises -- for example, Quantz, Leopold Mozart, Simpson and Ortiz. Even though I would prefer to improvise cadenzas, it want want to know what Baermann did.
My wife did her Ph.D. dissertation collecting and tracing the lineage of every recorder method book ever found. Believe me, she knows what she's doing when she improvises.
Every jazz player practically memorizes the work of the great improvisers -- Irving Fazola, Artie Shaw, Edmond Hall, Benny Goodman, Charlie Parker, Lester Young, John Coltrane, Louis Armstrong and on and on.
Improvisation without awareness of what others do is just plain dumb.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2013-08-14 15:11
Ken, I did not mean to imply you should not be "informed" or knowledgeable about what others have done. Effective and musical performance requires study--that is a given. However, I do think that the most meaningful cadenza would be one that expresses your own ideas and technical abilities rather than simply mimicking the work of someone else. You are absolutely correct that experience and awareness is necessary for intelligent and musical improvisation. What I am suggesting is that too many performers rely too much on the written score rather than trying to be tastefully innovative and express their own musical wares. A cadenza would be the perfect place to show off what *you* can do--with proper study and preparation, of course....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-15 04:16
Famous singers of the Golden Age had cadenzas and ornamentation they used all their lives. There's nothing wrong with that. Vaudeville players did identical shows in each town, and the next time around the audience came to hear the same gags. Movies killed vaudeville, because once your act (which you had polished all your life) was on film, you had nothing to do that people didn't already have. That's why the Marx Brothers films began with amazingly funny stuff like The Coconuts and Night at the Opera, but once they had used up their repertoire, it degenerated to embarrassments like Love Happy.
I don't remember whom the story is about, but in an aria (probably by Rossini) that required heavy decorations, one performer sang another one's exact written-out and memorized ornaments, leaving the true owner to sing a totally plain version and causing a huge scandal.
Mozart improvised his own cadenzas, of course, and often played from a bass line and a few melodic notes to remind him of what he had already composed, but even he wrote out numerous pure-Mozart cadenzas for his piano concertos. Every player today blesses Mozart for doing this. Robert Levin does a lot of improvisation, but it's wrapped around what Mozart wrote.
To hear how wrong things can go, listen to Charles Neidich's cadenzas crowbarred into the Mozart Concerto and many other pieces. And go back into the old issues of The Clarinet and be appalled by Jacques Ibert's Mozart cadenza.
I play lots of baroque music on the recorder and ornament promiscuously, based on having done it for years. But I don't come close to Telemann's written-out ornamentation in his Methodical Sonatas and Trio Sonatas, or Barsanti's Sonata in C Major, where the melody is so completely encrusted with gingerbread that you have to work hard to figure out what it is.
Bach hated uninformed improvisation so much that he wrote out all the ornaments in many of his pieces, including the Goldberg Variations. Monteverdi was even more rigid. When you sing his music in (almost) strict metronomic tempo, it comes out with the most amazing baroque frills and lace.
I play what I play, but I will take Baermann's cadenza any day over the best I can do.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
