 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2013-07-12 19:15
I am ambarassed to have to ask this question, so pardon this. On the other hand, it might be enlightening for someone to know this.
I subbing in a show tomorrow. The last time I did this, my 21-year-old daughter was an infant.
They told me to ignore the Alto Sax parts, but it would be nice to play them, even though I don't have a working alto available.
To read an Alto Sax part on Bb Clarinet, what interval do I need to transpose? How does the key signature change?
Ditto to read an Alto part on Flute?
TY
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-07-12 19:28
Read the alto as bass clef and transpose up a tone. Or remember that middle finger C left hand is F (thumb) on clarinet and work the rest out from there.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-07-12 21:57
No shame in asking. Better to know than to not know.
Alto sax to Bb clarinet - down a 5th, drop a sharp or add a flat.
Alto sax to flute - down a major 6th (or pretend it's bass clef), drop 3 sharps or add 3 flats.
It's hard to imagine why they'd tell you to ignore the alto parts unless you're on a Reed 2 part and they're fully scored otherwise.
Do you at least have a working alto sax mouthpiece, reed, and ligature? If so, maybe someone could bring an instrument; it's worth asking.
Post Edited (2013-07-13 03:46)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-07-12 22:12
The interesting and very convenient thing about the transposition Eb Alto to Bb Soprano Clarinet is that from the Eb Sax D4 (tone above middle C) to up to the C5 (an octave above) is that the fingering on the Bb Soprano Clarinet is practically identical to the Flute/Oboe fingering. (no speaker key on the Clarinet)
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-07-12 22:13)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-07-12 22:45
Do you have access to an alto clarinet? They are in Eb.
I used one as substitute for an alto sax in a show some years ago.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-07-12 23:06
It's funny how other posters don't read or acknowledge other posts. Both Davyd and Barry said the same thing as me in an extremely convoluted way.
I was hinting at the OP to perhaps try and figure this out with the hint that C with middle finger on alto is F, thumb on Bb clarinet. The rest is quite easy to figure out after that. Or indeed as I said before, read as bass clef and take it up a tone whilst keeping the sharps and flats the same.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-07-13 01:50
Cigleris said :- "It's funny how other posters don't read or acknowledge other posts. Both Davyd and Barry said the same thing as me in an extremely convoluted way".
Does anyone else who's reading this thread think that my comments were extremely convoluted ?
You assumed incorrectly Cigleris , I did read your post but your approach to explaining this interesting transposition did not 'click' with me , so I had a go at it myself.
I have used this transposition occasionally when I have been giving a Eb Alto Sax lesson and had only had my Bb Clarinet with me at time.
I was not trying to give instruction to Ralph about how to do this transposition , but was drawing attention to how interesting this transposition is in that the Bb Clarinet fingering is almost identical to the Flute/Oboe fingering. (Between D4 & C5)
In this particular occasion I saw no need to acknowledge you or anyone else.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-07-13 08:40)
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2013-07-13 03:53
Thanks to all who helped.
My alto was made by a company that only makes plumbing fixtures now, and I retired it decades ago. My wife has an almost-as-ancient but working alto somewhere, but what I am being paid for this quickly-booked-and-executed gig doesn't justify practicing or producing a working alto reed.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-07-13 03:54
Cigleris, Ralph specifically asked about intervals and key changes, so that's what I addressed. What's "convoluted" about answering the specific question that was asked? (Your approach didn't 'click' with me any more than it did with Barry.)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-07-13 13:13
Not directly to your actual question, but still related to your problem:
Synthetic reeds are a Godsend for just this kind of situation. I am not one of the converted for clarinet reeds, especially when clarinet is the only or principal instrument I play in a given ensemble context. But with doubling books synthetic avoids the dry reed problems that having the horn sit unplayed for long periods can bring on. Another side benefit, maybe apropos your situation, is that the reed you put on the mouthpiece today will be there when you need it, tomorrow, weeks or even years from now, no matter how little notice you get or last minute the booking is.
It seems like heresy here, but for sax I actually prefer Fibracell to the other synthetics I've tried. If you have an alto available and can get a couple of different strength synthetics, it may be a better solution than playing alto parts on anything else. It isn't that the transposition is so hard to handle, but the context of a sax part is often some combination with other saxes, and you'll be at a disadvantage sound-wise.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-07-13 13:38
Oops! Re-read your post and realized the show is today (Saturday). But if you can put your wife's sax together with a comfortable plastic reed, it could be the last time you need to transpose alto parts.
Karl
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Author: clarii
Date: 2013-07-15 02:17
funny i never knew these "tricks" and have always read it just a perfect fifth below what im reading. and e=flat cl. a forth above. easy. paul
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-07-15 05:29
My own approach to transposing is that if the transposition is close, that is for example , a tone up or down, I do what Clarii does and visually read the notes up or down. Same with a Major or Minor 3rd and also a 4th.
However , if the transposition is further than this up or down I do what the Recorder players have always done when going from a C Recorder to an F Recorder. I just relearn the fingering. (This is like actually visually moving the whole Recorder fingering chart up a 4th)
However this is only worthwhile if you are doing a particular transposition regularly.
The various 'tricks' are often very useful when relearning the fingering.
As with most of these 'tricks' , the notes are left where they are on the stave but the Clef and key signature is changed.
One of my favorites is using the A Clarinet as a C instrument.
In this case the G Clef is changed to the F Clef (Bass) and the key signature is changed to a minor 3rd higher.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-07-15 12:18)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2013-07-15 11:14
They are paying you, and they told you to ignore the Alto Sax parts. So you should ignore the sax parts, because that is the gig they paid you to do.
Drew S.
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Author: clarii
Date: 2013-07-16 16:08
in early 1960s we used to tune to a strobe tuner at u. of michigan band. all i can remember is standing in front of this machine and watching floating balls matching. really i had no idea what was going on. anyone interested in explaining this tuning machine and are there any in music history museums etc. i read on internet a scientist by the name of peterson invented it. paul
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-07-17 15:47
Can't say for sure but there was a strobe tuner made by Conn "back when". I never understood, then, why I had to play a "C" to tune up. Only in recent years did I discover the reason.
Bob Draznik
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2013-07-19 04:25
How: A strobe tuner is completely different from tuners that try to measure pitch electronically. It just flashes a light every time the sound pressure passes zero. The light illuminates markings on one or more rotating disks. If you are playing an accurate C, the C markings will appear to be stopped. If you are close to C, they appear to drift one way or the other.
A real strobe tuner is a large, delicate, expensive piece of equipment. Electronic tuners that look and work like a strobe are smaller and cheaper. Very much worthwhile for string players and anybody who sets up wind instruments.
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