 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-06-28 00:26
I've made such wonderful steady progress for the last year and a half that I've come to expect each month will be better than the last. Three days ago, suddenly in an ascending arpeggio, I kept choking off the response on the B and C# over the break. No matter how hard I tried, every other try, either the B or C# failed to respond instantly or sounded muffled or slightly delayed. Of course these are the two most resistant notes anyway, but although I must have tried the same arpeggio several hundred times, I kept feeling a quiet rage building up in me, making want to smash something. Angry outbursts are not a usual part of my makeup so I knew I was fanning the flames with my obsessive attempts without a rest. I put the horn away and didn't look at it for two days.
When I came back, I tried a difference with my embouchure. I tried a more corners back and a different feeling with air connection I'm having trouble describing. Basically, I felt I was just sort of shooting in the dark. Surprisingly, things started flowing much better. Unfortunately, corners back, or any even slight change in embouchure approach always results in a new tiredness for me, and after 15 minutes, my"new approach" seemed to weaken my muscles and I started resorting to my previous method. Learning clarinet is ultimately a very private journey, I see.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-06-28 00:30
Garth Libre wrote:
>> Learning clarinet is ultimately a very private journey, I see.>>
The wisest words you ever wrote.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-06-28 01:28
Garth -
Without hearing or seeing you, it's impossible to say what's going on, but it reads more like a wind problem than an embouchure problem. Try this:
Sit all the way back in your chair, with your hips rolled forward and your rear end stuck out in back (like Donald Duck).
Set your spine vertical, as if it were dangling from a coat hanger.
Set your head balanced directly above your shoulders, side-to-side and fore-and-aft.
Raise your shoulders and then let them drop down and back.
Inhale in a single motion from the small of your back diagonally through to the top front of your chest. (Remember that your lungs reach all the way up under your collar bones.)
Bring the clarinet to your lips (without moving your head to meet it), make your simplest "beginner" embouchure and let the breath flow out and through the instrument. The breath makes all the tone, and the embouchure none.
Watch in a mirror to make sure you don't move your jaw, the area under your tongue or your Adam's apple. Make NO glottal stops. No throat movement at all.
Put the bell of the clarinet on your left knee or between your knees and rest your right hand on your tummy. Play and finger with your left hand. Then add the lightest possible tongue. Your belly must be completely quiet. No air puffs at all.
In the words of the great Arnold Jacobs, it's all about wind and song.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-06-28 02:13
It sounds as though this was a sudden development - one day the two notes just wouldn't play reliably - you don't say whether at the beggining of your practice or several minutes into it. My suggestion would be to put aside any panicky changes in your approach and spend some time investigating whether there's a mechanical explanation. The two strongest possibilities are dirt or water (left over from your previous practice session) in the register tube or a reed problem. A torn pad over the D#/Eb hole might cause what you describe.
Did you try the same passage with a different reed or two? If a too soft or badly balanced reed is causing the problem, it's a very simple thing to find and fix.
Take off the register key and swab out the tube with a soft pipe cleaner (anything that blocks air from venting can block B4 and C#5 from responding). Try B and C# again before you even remount the key. Test the response by playing down a G or A arpeggio (G5-D5-B4 or A5-E5-C#5), since all those notes will play with the register vent open. If the two notes respond reliably, you've found the problem.
Inspect the surfaces of the pads at the bottom of the clarinet as best you can without disassembling the whole thing. You might try putting something thin and non-porous like plastic wrap under the D#6/Eb6 pad (since it's the next one up from C#) to prevent any air leak through a tear in the surface. If this makes a noticeable difference, have the pad replaced.
Pulling the corners of your mouth back and sitting like Donald Duck may well lead to a solution, but I would try the simpler possibilities first.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-06-28 02:29
And, BTW, while I agree that "learning the clarinet is ultimately a very private journey," there are times when a little help from a more experienced player can save lots of wasted time and frustration from missteps in tracking down a specific problem like this. There were any number of times when, as a student, I would spend days beating myself up over something I couldn't do or couldn't produce reliably, only to have my teacher at my next lesson tell me the clarinet needed repair or adjustment.
You might get just the clue you need to a solution by having a more knowledgeable player (a) play-test your setup and (b) look at and listen to what you're actually doing. Apart from the possibility of a mechanical explanation for your problem, sometimes what you think you're doing and what you're really doing are not the same, and an experienced objective observer can see the wrong turn you're making and show you a more productive direction for your journey to continue.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gkern
Date: 2013-06-28 02:49
>> Learning clarinet is ultimately a very private journey, I see.>>
And a long one, but supremely enjoyable...
Gary K
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-06-28 10:34
Garth, as ever there is some fantastic advice from the experts here but I know from some of your previous posts that you have circumstances that make it very difficult for you to get out to a teacher.
I started back on the clarinet journey about the same time as you and can empathise with your frustrations. As you have already said it is a personal journey and different things work for different people.
I have been working hard on the 2nd of the Stravinky 3 pieces recently and there are lots of quick register jumps in the fast passages. To make myself more fluid between the passages obviously I have had to push through with the diaphragm. This is all very well if one can stay relaxed enough to not clamp or lose control.
I have found little devices or 'ways through' which stop me from wanting to clamp but allow me to push through with control. For instance if I wanted to play a very rapid ascending A major arpeggio I think Baw-rer-aw-rer-her-roo-er. Obviously I am not physically changing my embouchure externally or tonguing but it keeps the pathway open for me to push through and keep the air going.
I wondered if maybe you might find your own 'ways through'? Obviously your voicing will be different to mine but I find 'r' 'w' and 'h' particularly useful to link to my own personal voicing.
I have always had trouble with the LH B lever on Bb/A clarinet because I have such small hands. I can just about reach the tip of the key but because I have panicked I think I have tended to clamp as well when I play on that side. Since I have been finding 'ways through' this has improved markedly. It will never be as good as my right but it is way better than it was.
The other thing I have done badly at times is play to the point where I have been exhausted and my diaphragm/embouchure just won't work properly any more. Doesn't help much when trying to be smooth between registers.
Anyway I thought I would share my journey with you too. I know how frustrating it can be but at the same time immensely rewarding ;-)
Of course everyone's journey is a little different and this bboard has helped me enormously along my route to date! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-06-28 15:32
A few days ago I was getting scared of myself. I know I can get a little obsessive and I'm trying to keep the clarinet as a pleasant interlude that I can turn to for a little time each evening. I also have to remember that I've been obsessive about other things in the past. Age has mellowed me though. My brother was a profesional musician for many years in NYC. He also put too much stress on himself in a desire to excel. When he was 30 something he got into a fever pitch of too many hours of practice and unrealistic expectations. One day he was a musician and the next day, he had smashed two altos, a tenor, two soprano saxes, and one Bb Buffet clarinet. After this outburst he never played again until his death. and I know for a fact that he suffered for it. At this time in my life I want to live a balanced life where music is an enhancement and not an excuse to beat myself up. As it turns out one needs to relax in order to play well and I'm gratefull for that.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-06-28 17:32
Garth -
Like Arnold Jacobs said, sing on the wind. Everything else takes care of itself.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-06-29 04:10
Tony -
I think we're talking past one another. Your linked piece is brilliant, and I agree 100%
Garth's problem clearly comes from trying to control things just by squeezing with his embouchure and throat. He said that hasn't worked and asked for advice.
I didn't advise minimum effort. I advised him to avoid wasted effort in one place and increase it in another -- putting enough air through the instrument. I advised a "beginner's embouchure" only as a temporary exercise to make sure he used enough air. Once his tone is back "on the breath," he'll re-introduce embouchure pressure and control. I intentionally left that advice until later to avoid overloading and confusion.
Can we agree that he should give more attention (and even effort) to the breath?
I'm on your side on this.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-06-29 10:42
You need to turn on 'threaded view' to see why I referenced the thread. I wasn't referring to the 'least effort' aspect of it, but to Arnold Jacobs's determined stance against controlled muscular oppositions in wind playing.
In my view, and contra Arnold Jacobs who was after all a TUBA player, we are wise to have that be a part even of elementary clarinet instruction. I find that even young players 'get it' easily, and that it is best built in early.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-06-29 13:45
Tony -
You're a much better player than I can ever hope to be, and muscular opposition clearly works for you.
All I can say is that I've read your explanation many times and worked hard to learn your method, but for me it produces only muscular tension and exhaustion. I like my tone better when I play with less oppositional tension, and I find that muscular opposition gets in the way of the tonal variety and musical phrasing "on the breath" that are central to my playing. I think I play best when the clarinet feels like an extension of my flow of breath, which can be a gentle breeze or a roar.
Arnold Jacobs's methods worked for him and his tuba students, but his books contain many thankful messages from clarinet, oboe and flute players who say he gave them great help.
Revenons au moutons. My advice was tailored to the problems Garth described. I thought then that he will benefit from shifting his attention from embouchure-squeezing to putting air through the clarinet, with or without muscular opposition. I still think so.
You're the battleship. I'm the skiff. We still pass in the night.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-07-01 21:22
It's not MY method; it's just what all sophisticated players of the instrument do in order to produce the nuances demanded by the clarinet literature.
My contribution was simply to explain HOW IT WORKS; and furthermore, to explain why that explanation of how it works has been elusive even to those players who routinely use it.
You do not NEED to use it in all circumstances; and when you do use it, you can use it to varying degrees. However, there are some circumstances in which it is essential in order to do the job: though if you don't encounter those circumstances -- either because you're an amateur player or because you have too low standards anyway -- you may well get by, albeit in a limited way.
But you're better off being able to appreciate it.
In its simplest form, it can be characterised thus: "You don't need to blow less in order to do a diminuendo" -- and that's what Arnold Jacobs denies in his silly article. (By the way, it's silly because it doesn't make sense if you read it. I suggest you try.)
See, my beef is not really with Ken Shaw -- who HE, after all, and why should I bother with whether or not he understands me, or can derive benefit from it? You notice that he fawns on me in this exchange; but I preferred it when he said of me here, "Give this man an enema and you could bury him in a matchbox". That remark summed him up, being typical of the secondhand nature of his contributions. (It was first said by a great Englishman about a crappy American.)
No, my beef is with Arnold Jacobs, and his maintaining that a tool that I and other clarinet players use day-to-day is counterproductively wrong.
Arnold Jacobs was a significant TUBA player. I can no longer say to him, how DARE HE use his eminence and standing to pontificate beyond the boundaries of his expertise?
But what I CAN say here is, HOW DARE Y'ALL use both his and your PUNY UNDERSTANDING of the situation to incapacitate others?
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-07-01 22:27
Backtracking, this relates to Garth's problem of the resistance of the notes 'over the break'.
Roughly, if you're 'playing quieter than you're blowing' below the break, then the notes above the break will have that extra 'blow' available to them. That extra 'blow' will appear automagically because your diaphragm will learn to relax (outside your awareness).
So, after practice, they'll come out -- seemingly magically:-)
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
