 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-06-20 16:16
I'm messing with a beginner Yamaha clarinet for something to do this summer. I had it up to my eyeballs messing with reeds on oboe and opted for a Fibracell to get me going. Everything seems to be progressing well except that the first space F is flat and I can't lip it or blow it up to pitch. I remember reading that getting a Forbes Debut mouthpiece, and also a particular ligature, could help with tone and intonation. I don't have any particular tone complaints but am not playing next to anyone on a fine instrument either; it sounds like a clarinet to me.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-06-20 16:39
In general, mouthpieces aren't the best first choice in solving intonation problems - especially if the problem only involves one note (F4 - the thumb). Check to make sure there's no dirt (or deliberately placed tape) in the 1st finger tone hole.
You don't say that E4 is also flat, but look anyway to see if the pad between E and F is high enough (you could take the rod that holds that pad and the 2nd finger ring off to see if better venting helps - while you'
re at it, check that hole for debris or tape).
How is the pitch of C6 (the twelfth above the thumb F)? If it's not sharp (which it typically is on many clarinets) and there's nothing in the 1st finger hole causing the flatness, you might be able to have a repair person undercut the hole (I don't know how well undercutting works on plastic).
Whatever a mouthpiece does for thumb F it will do perhaps to an even greater degree to the throat notes above it. I don't think a ligature is likely to have any effect on intonation at all - it doesn't change the dimensions of the air column in any way.
BTW, if the Fibracell is too soft, it could have an effect on intonation, although, again, probably not on a single note.
Karl
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-06-20 18:11
If it is thumb F, it is normal to use the C sharp key or the Eb sliver or side key depending on what you need. Clarinet is all about the gymnastics of doing whatever takes to make any pitch work in any given situation.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-06-20 19:59
What is the ambient temperature? 70-72 Degrees F is the usual design value. As F goes up, so does pitch, about 1% increase in pitch for 10 Degree increase in F. Thus, you may have a more serious problem, depending upon your ambient.
richard smith
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-06-21 01:34
"For thumb F?
Karl"
Duh!!!
Too late in the day.
Tony F.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-06-21 07:44
Just how flat is "flat"?
I often hear people lamenting about pitch issues with their instruments. Basically, every instrument has "pitch issues", including synthesizers (where just or even temperament may have been applied in the wrong context), and it's up to us players to compensate for them.
Our director spends a considerable part of the warm-up phase for tuning. Not with a tuner in the hand going from player to player, but with having us play in tune with each other. It's of little use to have a perfectly tuned instrument when you are unable to play in good unison with others, insisting on a tuner needle won't bring you anywhere in a team setting. When playing chords (especially some tension chord progressions), we often have to lip up or down, thus playing deliberately out of tune in favour to make such a chord truly "ring".
If you have the odd "sour" note in your instrument, how much too flat or sharp is it to begin with? When glancing at the tuner needle, you're already compensating (or trying to), which doesn't yield the same result as when a friend is watching the tuner and taking notes while you play blindly. Would the audience actually hear that note being "off" or is it more of a subjective impression?
Your only ways of compensating such a note is to tweak your embouchure and air speed (in order to add/remove upper spectrum parts so that the timbre changes and the perceived pitch), or to use resonance fingerings (eg keep the right hand down when playing a thumb-only F, operate a seemingly redundant key (eg C#/G#) etc.).
Of course, as others have mentioned, the instrument should be known to be in proper playing condition.
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-06-21 12:51
tictactux wrote:
>
> Your only ways of compensating such a note is to tweak your
> embouchure and air speed (in order to add/remove upper spectrum
> parts so that the timbre changes and the perceived pitch), or
> to use resonance fingerings (eg keep the right hand down when
> playing a thumb-only F, operate a seemingly redundant key (eg
> C#/G#) etc.).
>
Well, no, if the pitch deviation is large enough to be uncomfortable (subjective) and noticeable to others (less so), altering the physical dimensions of the instrument is always a possibility. What is "large enough?" For me it's when the pitch of a basic fingering is so far off that adjustment by embouchure or finger tweaks can't be done reliably or consistently under normal playing conditions. You can do the things you're suggesting, but if they're awkward enough and the problem is obvious enough, the need for fluency may make a mechanical solution attractive.
The issue is that a trade-off is nearly always involved. You can't raise or lower one note without also affecting its relatives in the harmonic series. Sometimes raising or lowering the pitch of a note by undercutting or taping a hole results in unwanted changes in the sound or resistance of the note as well, and sometimes it can affect nearby pitches that were in tune with the instrument to begin with, potentially creating a new problem. So, while changing the instrument is always a possibility, it needs to be weighed against these other consequences.
F4 can tend to be flat on some clarinets (I think mostly to keep C6 from being too sharp to manage comfortably with embouchure and fingering tweaks). Once you've determined that an obstructed tone hole or too limited venting isn't the cause and that the entire throat register isn't generally flat (which could be a mouthpiece/barrel issue), you can either lip up and open extra keys, or you can consider physically changing the E4 tone hole to make it easier to maintain fluidity through the clarinet's basic scale (this isn't an isolated chromatic). The possible trade-offs are a sharper C6 and increased brightness and reduced resistance for both F4 and C6.
Only the player knows how much inconvenience his technique will tolerate in making player adjustments. The really excellent players I've been exposed to over my lifetime as a clarinetist have always looked for a clarinet with the most even scale they could find, had adjustments made to it that didn't cause other problems, and then learned to play in tune on the result.
Karl
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-06-21 19:12
I agree, Karl.
I was only suggesting "soft" solutions that don't involve potentially expensive mechanical work. Of course, having an "even" instrument from the beginning makes things easier, but it isn't always within reach time- or money-wise.
My main message was that pitch is a relative concept...
--
Ben
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-06-21 19:30
tictactux wrote:
>
> My main message was that pitch is a relative concept...
>
Absolutely.
Karl
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-06-21 19:47
kdk wrote:
> > My main message was that pitch is a relative concept...
>
> Absolutely.
love the pun, Karl. :-)
--
Ben
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