 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2013-05-27 16:35
I played in a community band made up of mostly music teachers which should have as its motto the words from J. S. Bach's "Wedding Cantata" aria Schweigt, ihr Flöten (Be Silent, Flutes). The call from the podium (shared by two directors) is consistently, shut up clarinets, you are outrageously loud, shriek-y, high, etc. Now these are all adult players who are very good players with excellent sounds. It wasn't that we didn't try, and in fact I began to either not play or to play in a subtone most of the time. It didn't help. Playing in a subtone consistently is hard, not musical, and often not in tune, so it was not pleasant. None of this ever happened to any brass instrument, so I decided if they wanted a brass band sound they should just have themselves a brass band and forget the upper woodwinds entirely. I left. I have plenty of other places to play, and I like orchestral playing better, anyway.
I am not looking for advice about how to handle the situation. or to be lectured about balance, etc, etc,. I am wondering if others have experienced this and if this may be some sort of overall band director trend we have to put up with.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-05-27 16:53
There are various philosophies about the role of woodwinds in bands. One school of thought holds that bands are basically brass groups, and that woodwinds simply add a little color. At the other extreme were the great university symphonic bands with very large clarinet sections; in other words, wind "symphony orchestras" with the clarinets taking the place of the strings.
I think most directors today take a middle position, but I've noticed that clarinet sections today tend to be smaller than they once were. Saxophone sections tend to be larger.
The situation in your band is unfortunate. Is the instrumentation top-heavy?
That could be part of the problem.
Scoring for symphonic band can be tricky, and some arrangements don't work well for certain groups. If there are a lot of very high parts, one solution could be having one or two players playing the highest notes with the others taking the part down an octave.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-05-27 17:01
I don't know about a trend - conductors like this have always been there. There are two problems. One is that they can't think of anything more important to do than complain that things are too loud. The other is that the clarinets and flutes are physically closest to the conductor and often surround him in three directions, so those are the instruments he will hear most.
Good conductors (they *do* exist and are great fun to play for) (a) have no trouble hearing and pointing out expressive or structurally important issues that need clarity and require direction from the front and (b) know that the balance they hear standing on the podium is not the balance that reaches the audience.
The same thing happens in the pit for many school shows, where the pit conductor, often the school's choral director, spends a lot of time shooshing the pit musicians. The problem is that school-age singers rarely have very big voices and most schools have really rudimentary and inadequate sound systems. It reaches a point where the pit players are trying to play so softly that there's no sound left to control and playing in any way musically is an impossibility - for nearly the entire duration of the show (except for the dances, which are often cut or truncated for lack of competent dancers).
I don't think you can do much beyond what you did - play where you're comfortable and stay away from where you're not.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-05-27 17:59
In a band, you can't play with a soloistic tone. Except for the principal player, everyone must blend in. When I switched to Eb (from BBb contra), I was quickly told to pull back. I wasn't the leader of the clarinets, but was there just to add a sparkle to the section tone. Like the violins in an orchestra, everyone had to become part of the overall section sound.
To do this, you make an "aardvark" embouchure and roll most of the red part of your lower lip in over your lower teeth.
This goes against everything that's taught in conservatories, where you're urged to put more ping and resonance in your sound and project your personality out to the back of the hall.
But blending in is not about abandoning your hard-won achievements. It's about learning other ways to play. And you'll use it even in very soloistic music.
In the Spohr 1st Concerto for example, there's a spot about 5 minutes into the first movement where you noodle around in the low register while the orchestra (or pianist) has the melody. If you don't pull back and play Nebenstimme there, you're doing it wrong. And it spoils the contrast when you switch back to Hauptstimme for the virtuoso flourishes that follow.
It's the same in 4th movement of the Mozart Quintet. Nearly all clarinetists play the decorations in the 1st variation as a solo. But the strings have the melody. You're Nebenstimme there. Be like a spider, weaving a silvery web over the strings. The same thing happens in the 4th variation.
In the 2nd and 3rd variations, the violin and viola play Nebenstimme decorations over the (silent) theme, and you play double Nebenstimme to them.
And in the unnumbered 5th variation (marked adagio), everyone plays Nebenstimme decorations over the silent theme.
And the final section is a 6th modified variation, re-cast as a coda.
Knowing when and how to blend in is the great un-taught skill in music.
Ken Shaw
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-05-27 19:47
How well balanced was this section in terms of part distribution? In the community band I sometimes direct, it's not unusual to have 3 people on 1st, with only 1 player each on 2nd and 3rd. One former director addressed this issue by having the principal 1st play selected passages as written, with the other 1sts playing an octave lower.
There might also be an issue with how pieces are scored. There's usually no reason to have the entire section playing above the staff, in unison with the flutes. I find that flutes and clarinets generally sound better in octaves than in unison.
It might also be that the directors have an unacknowledged problem with high frequencies, in which case anything high will sound overbalanced.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-05-27 20:53
On the face of what John wrote, it seems as though all of the suggestions concerning how balance and over-prominent parts might be dealt with notwithstanding, the conductor(s) in question didn't try to do anything except call on the clarinets and flutes to play softer. From John's narrative, unless he's leaving out other attempts by these conductors to find technical solutions to the balance problems (such as the ones davyd suggests), the preferred solution was simply to harangue the clarinets and flutes to play softer.
The bottom line is that a good conductor will deal with problems, when they arise, in ways that succeed. The lazy or incompetent ones simply pick out the most obvious thing they can find and tell the players to fix it. There is a limit to how softly individual players on any instrument can play without losing control. You might as a conductor ask them occasionally to push that limit for a specific effect. But as a constant way to try to play, it can take the enjoyment out of playing. There are other ways to balance a sound.
Karl
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-05-28 03:10
Karl, although you and I and others provided suggestions and explanations, you're absolutely right when you said that a "good conductor will deal with problems, when they arise, in ways that succeed." Yes they should, and following our suggestions would be a good start. Harangues should not be a regular part of rehearsals, especially with the type of group John is in.
It reminds me of a story from my college days. I've posted it before, but it's worth repeating. We had a conductor who was a trumpet player, and he sometimes went off on harangues. Once he turned to the clarinet section and said, "Now clarinets, I don't want this to sound like sunrise on a chicken farm."
Everyone laughed, but looking back now, it wasn't a helpful comment.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-05-29 03:26
John, this information doesn't really help you in your current situation, but it does show how times have changed. Here's a link to A History of the Wind Band by Dr. Stephen L. Rhodes. The 11th chapter deals with instrumentation:
http://www.lipscomb.edu/windbandhistory/RhodesWindBand_11_Instrumentation.htm
It's fascinating to see the instrumentation of the 1938 University of Illinois Concert Band; it included 24 B-flat clarinets, 5 alto and 5 bass clarinets, 3 contrabass clarinets, and one basset horn. The band included several instruments seldom seen today, but there were only 7 saxophones, 7 cornets, 2 fluegelhorns, 1 alto fluegelhorn, and 4 trumpets. In most symphonic bands of the time, the clarinets always outnumbered the cornets and trumpets and saxophones.
For some reason, today's clarinet sections are much smaller, but saxophone sections are much larger. It isn't unusual today to see trumpet/cornet sections that are equal in size or larger than clarinet sections, but in the past, this would have been unthinkable.
Post Edited (2013-05-29 03:27)
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2013-05-29 11:39
I was in the same unfortunate situation that John finds himself. After a number of years I recognized the situation wasn't going to improve. I decided to change the situation. I found a wind symphony that actually appreciates the woodwinds and where the conductor wants more clarinets in the group. On top of that, the overall quality of my new group is significantly better and we play more challenging music. The only drawback to my decision is that I'm driving 20 miles to my rehearsal instead of 4.
Ralph
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2013-05-29 16:39
Groups like the Dallas Wind Symphony have it figured out. Multiple (and excellent) CDs are available. Their recordings, particularly those with Jerry Junkin, are excellent, and should, in my view, be the 'model' for which wind band conductors aspire. (caveat: DWS is staffed primarily by professional, auditioned players)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-05-29 19:46
Lynn, you're absolutely right. I've never heard them in person--only on CD--but they're an amazing group.
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Author: mamashep
Date: 2013-06-01 07:34
I was one of an army of clarinets in a community band section, and found that when I went back to school to get a MM, the habits that I'd formed in order to play quiet enough to suit the conductor had really impacted my perception of dynamics in general.
I've also noticed this trend in my younger students who participate primarily in band and not orchestra or smaller chamber groups. Namely, they have no perception of what dynamic to play in order to be heard by the audience. They only know what dynamic to play to avoid being chastised by the conductor.
It was a welcome relief to become a player in the Utah Wind Symphony. The music director has a very different vision of the job of clarinet players, and instead of bringing on an army of clarinetist, we went with 6 Bb, 1 Eb, 2 bass, and one Eb contra. Being an auditioned group, all of the players are very strong and able to balance a sizable brass contingency, and at the same time have the flexibility of playing some very musical section solis without having to cut half of the players out of the mix.
The only catch is that every player on every part must be very strong musicians.
The flute section is kept to the minimum required personnel as well, often having a section consisting of 3 flutes and one picc. This lets them play pp with good tone, and also gives them the freedom to really play out when the situation calls for it without getting the hand.
By far, playing with this group has been the most rewarding experience I've had, and after moving out of state I miss it dearly.
Here we are in action. Feel free to comment on what you think of this approach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maNk9JOicd4
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2013-06-02 20:58
@mamashep.....Wow! Thanks for the link. The Utah Wind Symphony gets it.
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Author: AlohaAnn
Date: 2013-06-25 17:19
Same thing happened to me. I became so tired of the conductor chastising and shushing the clarinets in a very unprofessional manner, even going so far as to do that dismissive nose snort, that I walked out one day and never returned. I tried to broach the subject with the fellow privately, but his reasoning left me feeling even worse than when I started. He basically said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I have found another community band with an amazing conductor. We are really flute heavy and clarinet sparse, but the comments are always helpful and we are never chastised. Never.
I have found that when you have a conductor whose background is in brass, they often focus on the brass section to the exclusion of the woodwinds, and even go so far as to have a negative attitude toward the woodwinds. I agree with the comment above, that if you want a brass band then form a brass band!
The moral of my story is that my time on this earth is too precious for me to voluntarily spend it in a manner that is not fulfilling and uplifting. I may not know as much about music as the next guy, but I know when something doesn't feel good. None of us should put up with the Put Downs!
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Author: tims
Date: 2013-07-07 19:40
This is one of the reasons I no longer play in bands. I honestly believe many directors view woodwinds with disdain (except maybe sax). Much of the new music for band rarely feature woodwinds, giving them only repetitive ostinato passages or rapid scales. Unfortunately far too much band music is now modeled for the marching field which is dominated by the drum corp style where brass and percussion is all that matters.
I admit that in a community band it doesn't take very many bad clarinets to make a whole section sound like a train wreck and directors are very poor at addressing the problem and would rather make the whole section disappear into pianissimo rather than single out an individual.
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