 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-05-23 13:32
A Brannen representative has written that their handmade flutes have soldered toneholes that are undercut at an interior angle know as the "Brogger Acoustic."
I'm inquiring about this, but I thought I'd bring it up here too. Does anyone know what the Brogger Acoustic angle is, and has anyone used it for undercutting clarinet tone holes?
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2013-05-23 21:55
The conical tone holes on my Brannen flute with the "Brogger acoustic" are not much different than the cylindrical tone holes on most flutes, hard to see the small angle. In addition to the slightly conical tone holes, there is a small fraising on the holes next to the bore. Clarinets seem to be undercut differently from the Brogger holes.
Mr. Alvin Smiley, former worker for H. Moennig, wrote some information about clarinet tone holes and Clark Fobes also wrote a paper on undercutting of clarinet tone holes. These should be available from a search.
The tone hole undercutting on the Buffet Prestige R13 looks to me like it is a little concave, one of the styles of clarinet undercutting. The tools from Ferrees seem to make straight angle undercuts as do the tools I've made. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtmyth
Date: 2013-05-23 22:29
Lee Gibson devotes several paragraphs to this subject in his book Clarinet
Acoustics.
richard smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-05-24 12:55
I'm an amateur, but FWIW, my policy with vintage msical instruments is to keep them in as close as possible to original condition, or restore them as close as possible to original condition. That's probably because most of my friends and a number of my relatives (including my husband, a bookbinder who specializes in restoring antique books) are in some aspect of the antiques trade. Refinishing or other modifications can cut the value of furniture by half, for instance. If I'm looking at antique or vintage clarinets for sale, anything as drastic as undercutting the tone holes means I'm not interested.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-05-24 13:02
Agreed.
About a year ago, I was looking at a Selmer BT that had just been overhauled. It looked beautiful, and I was ready to bid when I read "the intonation and voicing has been improved by [so-and-so]". I neither need nor want someone to "fix" an old Selmer in such a way that it reponds like a contemporary Buffet. To mangle these old instruments misses the point.
The sooner this type of attitude can become general practice in the instrument world, the better.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-05-24 13:19
It depends. My Oppermanized Bb R13 is the second best Bb I've ever played (just after the R13 that Moennig set up for Robert Marcellus, now owned by Guy Chadash).
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-05-24 14:04
Moderate undercutting on instruments that originally came with 'straight' toneholes can make a significant difference. I've done this to many Boosey & Hawkes soprano clarinets, and recently on some Vito (or Vito-stencil) bass clarinets and all play much better as a result.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-05-24 14:20
I've got no problem with players having their equipment optimized for their own use. It's "restoring" old large bores by "fixing" the voicings that is frustrating--(too often attempting to make them voice like R13s)--and intended as a selling point.
What I'm calling for is a little humility and common sense--if a tech is restoring a horn for the sake of selling it, please remember that not every player voices like you, and allow whoever buys it to make the changes they might want, if any--not the ones assumed to be "better" because they respond more predictably with a Bonade-tradition approach.
Mangled BTs and CTs are particularly frustrating for those of us who play them as primary horns--nothing like these horns are made anymore. By contrast, anyone wanting a horn that voices like an R13 needn't worry, they're still cranking them out by the tens of thousands.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-05-24 16:13
I've used very careful undercutting to fix problems on some of my own instruments. These were B & H sopranos, they seem to suffer from tuning/voicing problems more than most others. After the undercutting they were considerably improved, and others who have played them agree with this. I ruined a couple of clarinets in the process of learning how to undercut, but they were not worth restoring. I regarded them as a necessary sacrifice.
I'd have no problem with selling my instruments as they are now. These improvements are intrinsic to the instrument, not the player. I agree that if the undercutting is done badly or too enthusiastically it can ruin a good horn, and I'd always want to test-play one that had been so modified.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
