 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Summer22L
Date: 2004-02-06 18:35
Why is it that the Spohr concertos don't seem to be as "popular" as most clarinet pieces out there? It seems like I never hear of people performing them, working on them, etc. Is this true? if so, why?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-02-06 19:20
The Spohr concertos are good music, but not quite as good as the Weber concertos. They're also longer and considerably more difficult.
Weber wrote for Heinrich Baermann, who was a musician first and a technician second. Spohr wrote for Simon Hermstedt, who was a monster technician even by today's standards, but was said to be a less interesting musician.
However, I think the most important reason the Spohr concertos aren't done much is that, while the Weber concertos are readily available in inexpensive editions, the Spohr concertos are (or were until fairly recently) avilable only in expensive German editions printed on high-acid paper that fell apart in a few years. Even though at least #1 and #2 are available in US editions, teachers are less familiar with them, because they grew up when only the German editions were available.
Finally, the Weber orchestral parts are readily available (since they're called for frequently), while the Spohr parts are harder to find. You'll probably have to send to Germany for #3 (which is, I think, the best of them).
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-02-06 23:23
from a listening standpoint, I find the Weber Concertos are very easy to listen to and have melodies that are "cute" and "flamboyant"... The Spohr Concertos are much less catchy and are based more or scales and "technical" passages. Weber seemed to have a real talent for writing highly technical passages that are highly melodic. I find the Spohr Concertos to be pretty good, but they take more attention to appreciate, and you have to work a lot harder to make them sound interesting as a performer. For me, this is a possible reason.
On a similar note, why do the Crusell Concertos seemed neglected compared to Weber. I personally prefer Crusell over weber. As was mentioned by Ken about Spohr, the only Crusell concerto they had at the music store cost $40, compared to a bunch of Webers ranging between 8 and 20. This certainly discourages me!
Don
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2004-02-07 00:42
I've always found the Spohr concertos to be more interesting to listen to and play than the Weber. It isn't that difficult to make them sound like more than just scales and technical passages. A lot of good music is based on scales and technical stuff- that is why we practice scales.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-02-07 02:30
Ken Shaw wrote:
"However, I think the most important reason the Spohr concertos aren't done much is that, while the Weber concertos are readily available in inexpensive editions, the Spohr concertos are (or were until fairly recently) avilable only in expensive German editions printed on high-acid paper that fell apart in a few years. Even though at least #1 and #2 are available in US editions, teachers are less familiar with them, because they grew up when only the German editions were available."
Ken,
Unless "fairly recent" extends to almost 40 years, I have to disagree with you on this point (a rare event indeed). I have had all four Spohr concertos in International Editions (edited by Stanley Drucker), priced about the same as their Webers, for many years. I looked at the copyright date in each of my copies and it was 1965 for all four. I think length, difficulty, and perhaps musical interest are the key. As far as availability of orchestral parts is concerned, I suspect it is a chicken/egg question (or, perhaps, catch 22). If there was greater demand, orchestral parts would probably be more readily available.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: larryb
Date: 2004-02-07 02:52
Spohr's 6 German Songs for soprano, clarinet and piano are a lovely alternative to his concertos - after schubert's shepherd, probably the best of the clarinet-voice combos.
Maybe these succeed better than the concertos because Spohr was basically a violinist's composer, and his clarinet concertos seem to be more appropriate as violin concertos. There wasn't as strong a violin obbligato tradition to burden Spohr's writing in the German songs.
the Concertos are nevertheless fun to practice - in addition to the International editions, there are reasonably available Cundy-Bettony editions of at least some of the four concertos that seem to have been around for a while (reprints of older german editions, apparently).
Spohr also wrote a couple of wind octet/double quintets that are worth playing.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-02-07 04:14
I have the International Editions (ed. Drucker) of the Spohr Concerti that Jack mentioned.
I also have the Peters Editions (Demnitz) of #1 and #2, the Kalmus Editions of #1, #2 and #3, and the Cundy-Bettoney/Carl Fischer Edition of #1 and #2.
The first 2 Spohr Concerti were additionally published in Volume 1 (CU22) of a Cundy-Bettoney compilation book called Clarinet Classics. Included also was the Mozart Concerto, Weber #1, #2, the Concertino and Grand Duo.
At the time I don't remember any of the above being particularly difficult to obtain ...GBK
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2005-04-03 17:23
What would be the best Concerto to start with? I have not played any yet. Is is worth getting the Clarinet Classics book more than the single pieces?
Thanks
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-04-03 20:18
I can only talk from experience, not any research here, but traditionally Concerto No. 1 is the most owned, studied and played of the Spohr concerti. So Brian, I would start there if tradition lends any merit.
I must say, except for a lick here and there, the Spohr concerti are technically more difficult than the Weber works. As mentioned, Spohr was a violinist\composer by trade and his writing for clarinet reflects that. Particularly, the trills throughout his pieces and how they are laid in succession really challenge the fingers at the tempi indiciated. Man(!) what a "tongue-twister" for the fingers if ever I've played one.
I've always been in love with violin and cello music and maybe that is why I've also loved transcriptions and the Spohr concerti. In fact, it was my interest in the Spohr concerti that influenced me to go to Shenandoh University (http://www.su.edu) to study with Dr. Stephen Johnston whose DMA paper and recital was on them. Intriguing and disappointing thing about that was that I only briefly got to study the first concerto with him and it was a rather terse discussion at best. It was not until I returned to do my Doctorate did he and I have nearly a full lesson-and-a-half talking about Spohr, Hermstedt and the concerti.
Dr. Johnston has given numerous lectures and written a number of articles on the concerti over the last thirty years. If you were interested in his research paper on them, I know (personally) that he would still be tickled pink that you requested it from him. It would cost a few dollars for the printing and shipping, I'm sure. He may even direct you to the University of Maryland to request it from their archives where he completed his DMA.
Another reason I think that the Spohr concerti may not be as popular is that while Spohr certainly was not the depth of composer as Weber was, it does not lie as well for piano accompaniment as the Weber arrangements do.
Lastly, I prefer to listen to the Spohr concerti over the Weber simply because I do not hear them as often (not to mention the fact that most people I have heard are of a German school sound, which I prefer) and I love the contrasts of he middle movements. I almost believe that you could get away with playing a recital of just middle movements of the Spohr concerti (not considering time interests).
*resisting getting Spohr concerti out to practice!* I'm working on the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto last movement transcription right now. Argh...don't distract me Louis! Stop!
[Interesting note I just saw on the web. Louis Spohr was nearly 6' 7" tall!!! ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif) ]
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-04-04 02:49
I view Spohr as a sort of 'advanced Weber' and have started on #1 since performing Weber F minor last year. I am also working on the Weber Eb which I feel is akin to Spohr 1.
For what it's worth, I absoloutely love the demeanor of Spohr 1 - I think, just like Weber, too many a clarinetist simply passes it off as technical and not very musical. I've found there's SO much more to both Weber and Spohr's concertos than simple technical brilliance. It takes a good musician to play either musically.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-04-04 04:09
A few years ago at a Clarinetfest I asked Karl Leister about how he prepares to record something as daunting as the four Spohr concerti.
His answer was that he listened to EVERYTHING ELSE that Spohr had written, especially the vocal works. Only then, he said, can you appreciate and understand the composer's style, intentions and where the pieces fit in his compositional output.
Leister said that the studying was difficult. The actual recording was the easy part...GBK
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-05-02 17:25
I absolutely love the Spohr concertos. They are more demanding but they were so perfectly written for the clarinetist who is willing to rise to the occasion. I really hadn't heard them until Sabine Meyer recorded the fourth concerto and I was hooked.
I just downloaded the first concerto off IMSLP and am preparing it. Playing it with Smart Music's accompaniment makes it even more fun. Music like this really makes it worth it to be a clarinetist.... I'm just saying...
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2013-05-02 17:44
Many good points made in the various responses - and of course there's also the very commercial reason that compared with the crowd-pulling Mozart, lesser known concerti aren't so effective at paying the bills, are performed less often, and therefore remain less familiar... Pleasing to report though that the Classic FM music station in the UK has been a modest champion of Spohr's music, including the clarinet repertoire, along with other often under-rated composers, such as Finzi.
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2013-05-02 22:25
Do you think that Spohr is less popular than Max Reger? You are posing a question to an audience of clarinet players; you might pose the question to a wider audience of people who play serious music or who regularly attend concerts and recitals of serious music.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-05-02 22:32
How many times have you seen the Violin Concertos programmed? Have you ever seen a group programe the Nonet? This suggests to me that Spohr is not in favour.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-05-02 22:54
I suspect that the logistics and economics of getting flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horn, violin, viola, cello, bass all together for one concert is part of reason that the nonet is not often programmed.
Musically it is a really great work and also one that is easy on the ear!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-05-03 02:49
The first concerto of Spohr is an eleven page clarinet part as downloaded from that great IMSP site. Modern audiences may not wish to sit through such a long presentation. After all, they must access their iPods frequently. It seems to me that the Spohr pieces are for the clarinet inteligensia.
By the way, I recall playing the nonet, a fine piece.
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