 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2013-05-03 12:49
Has anyone experienced what seems like the reaction of a dog when someone blows one of those high frequency dog whistles while playing in a band? Well, I have and here is what is happening. The person that plays flute sits near me and also plays piccolo. I would say most of the time they are on the piccolo instead of the flute. They are an excellent musician and can play piano, but on that particular instrument the tone coming out of it is so shrill and piercing that it actually hurts my ears. Now this is an elderly person and has lost some of their hearing. I have seen this in several bands over the years that older people lose their hearing and still want to play. Since we are not prone to saying no to players, there is often loud playing and sometimes tuning problems. The funny thing is they never lose their rhythm abilities, just sound quality and volume control. Wouldn't it be in the spirit of true musicianship to bow out and quit performing when one's facilities no longer meet fundamental standards? I guess its better to be kind, but as one who is wanting the best possible sound, it is a sacrifice that occurs often in our communities.
Post Edited (2013-05-03 12:53)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-05-03 13:23
Part of the problem is that the person who is losing their faculties is often unaware of the fact. The onset of loss is very gradual in most cases, and the body automatically compensates. For what it's worth, my cat will ignore the sound of the clarinet and sax, but will leave the room as soon as I pick up a flute, before I sound a note on it. Everyone's a critic!!!
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-05-03 13:25
I went deaf in my left ear during a rehearsal while being sat next to the (sharp) piccolo player - it started with a low purring/rumbling noise then my hearing in my left ear cut out leaving a high pitched whistle (not unlike a piccolo) until the following morning.
They are a health hazard in the wrong hands and should come with a Health & Safety warning. But that's just one - when you get more than one, that's when real trouble happens. Instead of unisons, you get difference tones or beat frequencies!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-05-03 13:32
The first post brings up an extremely difficult problem in small chamber ensembles (quartets, quintets, etc.) as well. Unfortunately the person who's aged past the ability to play up to the group's standard is usually the last person to realize there's a problem. When an amateur group has met together for years, with the members becoming good friends, it's a sad day when one of them starts losing the ability to play on pitch, and maybe also starts to having trouble with sight-reading and learning new music.
In a professional band or orchestra, the management (after a word from the conductor) can and usually does quietly step in to replace someone before the problem becomes obvious to the audience. In an amateur band or orchestra, the conductor can (should) gulp hard and speak to the person privately. It's part of the conductor's job to play the villain, alas. In a small group, there's probably no one right way to handle the situation -- because the situation isn't always the same.
If the issue isn't Alzheimer's or the piccolo player going deaf, but simply a problem with the seating arrangement that subjects musicians nearby to ear-splitting shrieks, I hope the musicians are comfortable enough with the conductor to ask for a re-arrangement of the chairs.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
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Post Edited (2013-05-03 13:35)
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Author: Mom
Date: 2013-05-03 14:11
In my humble opinion as an active audience member, besides the possible exception of "Stars and Stripes Forever", the piccolo should be banned.
Can your group director choose music that does not feature the piccolo?
You might have to resort to ear plugs at least for the time being.
I agree this is a public safety hazard and should be approached as such. This should not hurt the person's feelings.
By the way, just to toss this out there, a hyper-sensitivity to noise that is new or developing may indicate the start of hearing loss. Good idea for all you musicians to consider those ear plugs on a more regular basis.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-05-03 15:22
Sorry to disagree with most of what's been posted so far. If the piccolo player plays rhythmically accurately and in tune (you don't complain about his intonation and say he's an excellent musician) and the only problem is that he plays too loud, his hearing, whether or not he's lost some of it, isn't the problem. If he's truly too loud, the conductor has only to ask him to play softer. If the conductor doesn't hear it as a musical problem, it may only be that you are uncomfortable hearing a picc played that close to your ears. You may need to find a solution that doesn't involve him. Where exactly are you each sitting in relation to each other and to the rest of your sections?
Piccolo players, as well as trumpet players and percussionists playing timpani or cymbals, sometimes play too loud for the comfort of anyone sitting nearby in the ensemble. It doesn't necessarily have to do with age. Sometimes it's the result of questionable musical taste, of which players of any age can be guilty.
Are other players uncomfortable with this picc player's volume? Does the conductor ask him to play softer?
Karl
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2013-05-03 17:50
I haven't talked to the conductor about this but may end up doing that. It's one of those things that when it happens you look around and wonder if a joke's been played on you. It is so bad that it hurts my ears.
I think the piccolo requires little air which is why an older person might lean towards that than playing their flute. They are choosing the optional piccolo part on a regular basis, and keeping the flute on the floor stand.
I do believe it is a legitimate instrument, but a most abused, underestimated and demanding one at that.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2013-05-03 18:58
Ear plugs, ear plugs, ear plugs! I started wearing them when I sat to the right of a picc player, and at the suggetsion of said picc player.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-05-03 19:04
I'm not sure that it *does* take less air than a flute, and if using less air were the attraction for this player, I don't think he (or she - you haven't said) would be playing at an unusual volume. Some players prefer to be by themselves on an exposed auxiliary part (and piccolo is nothing if not exposed - all the time it's playing) rather than be buried in a section of the same instrument.
My biggest points, other than that piccolos are piecing up close by nature, are that you may be making the player's age an issue when it may not be (which was the basis for all of the discussion about players who don't know when to quit playing), and if you are the one sitting closest to the piccolo (especially on the instrument side), you may be getting more of an impact than anyone else.
Karl
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-05-03 20:10
There are out of tune and too loud piccolo players of all ages.
It can be a serious problem with any band or orchestra. The piccolo can make the whole band sound out of tune! It is up to the conductor to fix these problems.
The piccolo needs to be practiced every day, checking with the tuner frequently. It really is not an instrument to be picked up once a week to demonstrate how cute it is. The embouchure is similar to the flute, but the mouth hole is made to be smaller. A relaxed but frowning embouchure is needed with aiming the air at the toes. Soft practice on flute etudes is great, making for soft and beautiful sounds on the piccolo.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-05-03 20:32
Trouble starts when piccolos are in unison with glockenspiels - that really shows up how sharp some picc players can be.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2013-05-04 14:42
The piccolo has several voices. The lowest register has a clarity to it and I'm sure sitting next to someone playing this register is for the most part very agreeable in decibels. The second register which is comparable to the highest register of the flute starts to be piercing. These notes are generally easy to produce aside from cracking attacks etc. It is third and highest register of the piccolo that can be problematic for the listener. High D through G are generally produced easily but they project a great deal. It takes skill to harness this power. The notes high A up to C are more difficult to get responding. People try virtually anything to get these notes sounding. They are generally not as loud but extremely hissy and finer in quality.
The piccolo is not just a small flute. Most of them are conical and have different tuning tendencies from the cylindrical flute. Piccolo players frequently use ear plugs when practicing. This isn't due to a rough, insensitive approach to the instrument. The upper register is just hard on the ears up close.
My suggestion is to mark in your part when you know there is high piccolo coming and put ear plugs in. Be nice to the piccolo player. His/her job is different than yours.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-05-04 15:16
What Marcia said: protect yourself in the noisy environment of a band or orchestra with an ear plug (or two). I know a cellist who plugs his right ear to keep the trombones out...
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-05-04 21:47
Greg Smith has described what it's like to sit directly in front of the Chicago Symphony brass section. They use earplugs and also put up plexiglass shields. John Moses plays in a theater pit and uses special earplugs.
I can't play with plugs in both ears. Try a flesh-colored one in your left ear if you want to be courteous, or a fluorescent hot pink one if you want to make the admonition obvious.
Or switch to Eb and play directly into the pickle's ear.
Or roll up a couple of sheets of newspaper and whack the pickle on the head when she gets too enthusiastic. (I assume it's "she" since you went through contortions to avoid using masculine and feminine pronouns.)
Or agree with her and the conductor that you can say a magic word to let her know she's out of control. (If you've played Gilbert & Sullivan's Ruddigore, you know that the word is "Basingstoke.")
Or volunteer to play principal 2nd clarinet. That'll get you away from the problem and let you improve the clarinet section by providing a reliable 2nd part.
Ken Shaw
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2013-05-06 13:39
I think this sums up my beliefs on the matter:
The piccolo needs to be practiced every day, checking with the tuner frequently. It really is not an instrument to be picked up once a week to demonstrate how cute it is.
Some musicians don't have enough respect for their instruments and I am not putting the blame on old people alone, but on the lack of awareness.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-05-06 20:27
We used to have Burmese cats and they'd start fighting with each other whenever I played high register notes on piccolo. Same with any kind of whistling in general as that would get them started.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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