 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2013-04-30 23:06
eaglgenes101 wrote:
> What difficulties do you run into if you use the standard
> fingerings?
F#6 is low in pitch (at least on most R13's)
...GBK
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Author: 2E
Date: 2013-05-01 00:19
I haven't played the piece myself, but had a quick look at the passage in question.
Not sure if this would work but maybe finger the C# as normal (Th oxx|xxo) and then finger the F# like (Th xxo|xxo) you could put the Eb vent key on if it's a little flat but would be tricky to do quickly and smoothly.
Hope this helps!
I'm interested to hear other peoples suggestions for this also.
2E
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-05-01 01:24
I would entertain using the "Bb" fingering for the F#. On my past R13's that fingering had a great deal of flexibility and I had a great deal of confidence with it -- GBK, are you concerned that the Bb fingering could "get away" from them?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-05-01 02:06
The long fingering for F plus the right little finger on the Ab/Eb key usually gives an in-tune F# at a slight sacrifice in tone color.
The standard F# fingering with the addition of the left hand little finger C#/G# key, the right ring finger sliver key, or both, can raise the pitch.
With either fingering, you can also open the throat Ab key.
For C#, the standard fingering works well for me. The main alternative is the standard C fingering plus the two bottom side keys, once again adding the C#/G# key, the sliver key or both to raise the pitch. That's what I use on the Bb in the slow movement of the Saint-Saens Sonata to avoid the repeated crossings of the clarion/altissimo break. It also helps to leak the left index finger hole only very slightly.
Playing C# with just the left index finger, as with the chalumeau upper F#, is another possibility, though it's difficult to control and you must learn to voice it to sound without the register key.
A good but very expensive solution is to add the Marchi altissimo mechanism, which eliminates the F# problem and extends the altissimo register down to Ab.
My biggest problem in the Brahms slow movement is the altissimo G-F-Eb sequence a the climax. To play the G in tune, I use the good RT | X O X | X O X fingering, which makes it difficult to get to the standard F fingering. I use the long F fingering and slip and slide up to the standard Eb fingering, but it's a hazard. Maybe Av Gaper's G fingering, clarion high B plus one or both of the top trill keys, can work, though it's still a hazard getting down to the F.
I don't have Tom Ridenour's fingering book handy, but he gives many alternatives.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-05-01 02:22
In that sequence you're talking about Ken, why not play the G as: OXX XXO with LH c#/g# (right next to your LH ring finger) and RH Eb? Then go to the F by simply lifting te first two fingers of your RH?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2013-05-01 02:26
I find that playing the high F# as "T xxo|xxo", or "T oxo|ooo + (rh)C#", or even as an overblown clarion Bb ("T xxo|ooo + (rh)Bb-trill") all work fine on my CSGH-A. My favorite is probably the overblown clarion Bb as it speaks well, has a good sound and is just a tad high.
I think it is helpful to avoid playing these arpeggios too fast and perhaps emphasize (i.e., really support and linger a bit on) the highest note.
I have one edition that even provides a Bb translation for this part of the second movement, leaving 5 beats to switch back to A after the recapitulation (although I think this could be a bit tight).
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-05-01 03:46
Not really sure these days what constitutes a standard high F#; but I use 1st and 2nd of LH, all three of RH, and the Eb/Ab vent pretty much for most situations on R13 and it works nicely here as well.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-05-01 04:00
I don't use an R13 and can't check one right now, but with my clarinet I'd probably use the clarion A# fingering for the F# and the "regular" fingering for the C#.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-05-01 15:26
For me, same as Paul Aviles:
C# - RT oxx xxo
F# - RT xxo xxx Eb (for me, way too sharp without rt-hand ring finger)
(or, as discovered below: RT xox xox no vent also works well for me here)
C# - RT oxx xxo
For the passage Ken mentioned, I would use the (for me) "normal" fingerings:
G - RT oxx xxo Eb
F - RT oxx C#/G# ooo Eb
Eb - RT oxx xo,o Eb
Using Ken's G (which, for me isn't any better than my "normal" fingering
G - RT xox xox Eb (I get F# without the vent key, BTW)
F - RT xxx C#/G# xxx
Eb - RT oxx oox Eb
Actually RT xox xox gives me a good F# that's not in Ridenour. I just sent it to wfg.woodwind.org.
Best regards,
jnk
Edit: Well my e-mail to wfg@woodwind.org bounced (invalid address). There goes my bid for immortality. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
Post Edited (2013-05-01 15:33)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-05-01 15:39
I've used the standard C# fingering (oxx|xxo) and the overblown upper Bb for the top F# as you can linger on that note in a semi-rubato manner instead of playing it absolutely metric. But that's on a Selmer Series 9, so not sure if it'll work so well on a Buffet.
Only I can't find my copy of the clarinet part, but I do have the viola transcription of it to hand along with the other string parts. I'll turn the house upside down later on to find it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-05-01 17:35
I realise that, but I would still like to know where my physical copy has got to.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-05-03 04:09
Because the F# is played very quickly it really should not be a problem if you voice it a high as possible and don't emphasis it so you can ealily use the regular fingering. 2nd finger in the LH. On the A clarinet it usually is not as flat as it is on the Bb clarinet. I've performed this many times and that's the fingering I use but putting the emphasis, and a very slight tunuto, on the C# and "passing" over the F# quiclky. It should sound just fine. Never had a problem with it that way.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-05-03 08:06
I use the standard fingering on the occasions I have to hit that note, I'm enjoying seeing all of the alternates that I will have to try.
My dogs HATE that note...lol. They are not clarinet enthusiasts!
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