 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2013-04-20 07:16
Super annoyed. I spent way too much time thinking about spoiling myself with a new clarinet, trawling the web for every bit of information I could find, and felt confident about wanting to try a Selmer. Finally I got up enough courage to ring what is effectively the only option in Sydney for trialing clarinets, to discover, despite claiming to be a "Selmer Pro Shop" ( but not listed on www.selmer.fr website?), they don't have any. Huh? Not that it would be a great help but I rang around. The listed "Pro Shop" doesn't have any in Brisbane, and there is ONE (a St Louis) in Melbourne, and that's a demo horn.
SELMER PARIS PROSHOPS COMMITMENT: the best choice, the best advice, the best technical assistance.
Right, that's novel - the choice and advice is, buy a Buffet. Or a Yamaha.
J
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-04-20 09:18
It's the same story here in Miami Florida. I think Yamaha and Buffet are much more aggressive and successful in the distribution and marketing of their products. There was a time when Selmer was higher on the food chain. Now a days the economy has beaten down the brick and mortar stores to the point where even the big music stores only have a few low end instruments in stock. If you want to sample the best of the best of all brands including Selmer and Leblanc, you have to order it by email and take advantage of generous return policies. I'm going to NYC this week, and I hope the situation there is a bit better.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-04-20 13:10
To be honest you should probably count yourself as lucky if you can find a shop that has clarinets of ANY brand in stock and is within a reasonable driving distance. I'm not sure what it's like in Australia but here in the US the vast majority of music store don't carry any instruments other than guitars, keyboards, and drums. Occassionally you can find one that carries wind instruments but often they are geared towards supplying the public school bands and only carry student level instruments.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-04-20 13:12
That's a shame because Selmer makes some really good clarinets. It's all about having a choice and you don't. That's too bad.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2013-04-20 14:00
Garth and Steve, sadly you're right. Most brick and mortar music stores today seem to carry mostly guitars, keyboards, and drums, and when they do stock wind instruments, they're usually student models.
Here in southeastern Michigan, it's possible to find Buffet R13s, but that's about it. Nothing against the R13, but for those who want to check out anything else in person, it's almost impossible. It wasn't always this way. Growing up in the 60s, there were a quite a few people I knew who had purchased pro-level Selmers locally (probably Series 9s or 10s), and they were happy with their instruments.
Kessler Music is a Selmer dealer, but according to their web site, Selmer no longer allows their dealers to sell on-line: http://www.kesslermusic.com/html/clarinet/selmerclarinets.htm
Garth, you mentioned Yamaha. In my area, it's possible to find some student models and the Allegro, but that's it. A friend who works in a music store told me that Yamaha has a policy similar to the that of other companies: if you want to sell our instruments, you have to buy them first. For many local dealers, this doesn't make good economic sense because the demand is low. Last summer, I had a conversation with a Yamaha rep, and suggested that Yamaha supply their dealers with some of the higher end models for customers to try. If the customer liked the instrument, he or she could order one. The rep said he liked the idea, but it's doubtful that Yamaha has changed its policy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-20 14:01
If you ever plan a visit to the UK or Europe, you'll have much more of a choice from specialist dealers who carry the majority of makes of pro clarinets. While Buffet are also the most popular clarinets in the UK, they're not the only make on sale here.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2013-04-20 14:54
As a Buffet dealer, I can guarantee that there is no "Buffet Consipiracy.'' Selling instruments is a lot of hard work and requires a lot of capital. Every music store or outlet is it's own business and decides what instruments it can stock and sell profitably. That's it.
I hear a lot a silly ideas when I talk to customers and prospective customers, but this idea that there is some kind of conspiracy, is one of the worse.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-04-20 15:19
Consumers, ultimately, determine store inventories. It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact of the market.
If Buffet is being requested and bought by 80% (as some have suggested) of us consumers, that percentage is going to translate to the clarinet inventory on hand in retail stores that stock the horns.
Out of financial necessity, smaller retailers are probably going to ignore the 20% of the consumer market that want something other than Buffet and, just stock horns for the 80% market share (Buffet).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Daniel Frazelle
Date: 2013-04-20 16:20
Economic reality is not a conspiracy. Buffet has been on top of the industry in the U.S. for years.
Prior to Buffet setting a price floor for their products in 2006, I always felt like they were vastly UNDER-represented in retail shops across the country. They were dominant in the professional and serious student ranks but couldn't be found in local shops. The change in strategy, to ensure that local shops could compete with mail order and Internet retailers was an important step. To me, the current state reflects far more balance between local and national sales.
Furthermore, you have to admit that Selmer has done a pretty poor job managing their brand and approach recently. Their product lines are somewhat confusing and nobody knows what to make of their ownership of Leblanc. I've seen nothing in marketing that shows much life in the company. Buffet just seems far more focused right now.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-04-20 16:50
Interestingly enough, it's actually a subversive Communist plot (?)... the Taliban (?)... the Japanese (?) ... an American Imperialist plot (?)... Take your pick.
I agree with Daniel; Selmer and the other manufacturer's do a pretty poor job at advertising their fine products. Additionally, there is a great deal of "Buffet and Yamaha snobery" on the market. My closest "decent" music store is about 1 1/2 hours away. It was interesting that his 3 models for sale was a Selmer (don't remember the model) Intermediate, a LeBlanc Bliss 210 and a LeBlanc 310. When I asked about a Buffet, he said the overhead was just too much to stock either the Student or Intermediate models. He said there were well playing clarinets on the market without having to pay extra for the "gold stencil."
I'll have to personally endorse Dave Kessler who worked with me over the phone picking a clarinet which fit my "adult beginner's talent" and situation. I ended up with the Bliss 310NS and have not been sorry. I've been shunned by another BB because I dared defend my purchase, which was rated as a "loser" by one of their "distinguished members." I'm not a student or a professional as many of you on this BB and have found an instrument, which gives me much enjoyment.
I commend the staff here for their tolerance and patience with us who are beginners.
Tristan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-04-20 17:31
It's not a conspiracy. They have the majority of the market around the world.
It is being financially responsible choosing not to maintain a store front. I'm sure you can order instruments on trial from somewhere.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2013-04-20 21:36
Is it possible that 80% of clarinet owners are wrong in their choice of Buffet?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-04-20 21:58
I'll go there:
Quote:
Is it possible that 80% of clarinet owners are wrong in their choice of Buffet?
This assumes that another instrument would be better for them. Only the player can make that judgement.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-04-20 22:23
That's true Tobin but sadly there are too many "professors" certainly in the US that insist that their students play those instruments. They should allow their students to find their own voice through the instrument they choose.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-04-20 22:27
I'll go there too:
Rhetorical Question #1: "Is it possible that 80% of clarinet owners are wrong in their choice of Buffet?"
Other Rhetorical questions:
Is it possible that Ricardo Morales is wrong in his choice of a Backun?
Is it possible that Sabine Mayer is wrong in her choice of a Wurlitzer?
Is it possible that Artie Shaw was wrong in his choice of a Selmer?
Is it possible that Pete Fountain was wrong in his choice of a Leblanc?
Is it possible that Paquito D'Rivera is wrong in his choice of a Rossi?
Is it possible that Robert Marcellus was wrong in his choice of a Buffet?
Answer to Rhetorical Question #1: That depends what you think of 80% of clarinet players.
Answer to all the others: No, it isn't possible.
There will be a quiz on Monday, but I won't grade them.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-04-20 22:47
I'm a Buffet Dealer but I have one new Buffet in the shop, a B10. I would need a number of instruments for someone to try out to draw people. Let's see... 7-10 R-13s, Prestiges, Festivals, etc. Oh yes,both Bb and A clarinets. It takes lots of money. Then I need to go to Buffet to choose them to avoid duds. And maybe do some preliminary set-up so that they're in tune. This is a big investment. It takes a dedicated shop with someone who is good at playing and choosing instruments (which I am not), and understands want instruments players will choose. If you want a good clarinet it is worth traveling to a seller who has a good reputation. Also both Buffet and Yamaha have ateliers in NYC where you can play and choose.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-04-20 22:55
Cigleris, How true regarding professors, teachers, academics, etc. Are they biased or well-paid off by the companies? I think NOT! To be fair to these fine mentors, their interest is to pass on a discipline to their students. By using a single instrument, with which they are familiar, they have eliminated one variable in the teaching of the discipline. They can concentrate on their students technique and progress. Once the student has become proficient, he or she progresses to the instrument which suits their taste as a soloist and perhaps another one which blends with the rest of the ensemble.
I can speak from my own training as a physician. Take the simple stethoscope...simply a set of ear pieces, rubber tube, bell and diaphragm. By recommending a Littmann basic stethoscope, the teacher has a good idea regarding the sounds transmitted to his 200 students' ears and can describe what that student should be hearing. Once proficient, I chose the scope which performed the best for me. As I age, I have had to use a computerized, amplified scope...a personal choice to better serve me and my patients.
Tristan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2013-04-21 01:33
OK, I didn't *really* think it was a conspiracy. Heavens.
Anyway, from my point of view, if Selmer are ever going to chip away at the 80%, they have to do something different.
To make a shop BUY the clarinets is just crazy. If every "Proshop" had one of every selmer model on consigment so the shop's customers could try them out, I think that would make a WORLD of difference. Better to have a clarinet sitting in a shop than a warehouse. Or do Selmer think their instruments can't complete with Buffet musically?
If someone from Selmer happens to read this, please go google consignment stock.
J
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-04-21 14:16
@jonok:
"if Selmer are ever going to chip away at the 80%, they have to do something different."
You're right but, good luck with that (lot's of corporate suits in the decision making chain with turf to protect).
Not sure how it works in Australia but, in the US market, what looks like another conspiracy, but isn't, works like this in reality:
Steinway (right, the piano people) owns Conn-Selmer. Conn-Selmer owns Leblanc. Conn-Selmer is the exclusive US distributor for "Selmer Paris" (not to be confused with Selmer USA).
"Doing something different" really isn't in the multi-division corporate DNA.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2013-04-21 16:16
Music stores are in the business to make money selling products to customers. And most of those prospective customers are school musicians and adult amatures who do not want to spend the "big bucks" for a top pro instrument when a cheaper clarinet will play all the same notes with relative facitility--at least, good enough for the school or community band they may be members of. We clarinetists, who demand the best of the best equipement, are in the small minority and it is just not cost effective for most music stores to cater to our whims of having a vast inventory of top pro clarinets to try--and MAYBE, buy. Most often those clarinets set of the shelves and collect dust while the student and intermediate instruments sell. To me, it's "economics 101".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-04-21 16:48
"And most of those prospective customers are school musicians and adult amatures who do not want to spend the "big bucks" for a top pro instrument...."
Excellent point. (Speaking of market share percentages; Buffet with 80% of the "pro" horn market). I'd guess 90 plus percent of the overall, new horn purchase, clarinet market is within the student and step-up market segment.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jonok
Date: 2013-04-22 01:59
William, I understand it from the shops perspective. It just seems that Selmer has a more than a strong vested interest in supporting their proshops to attract customers. I can only infer that the local Paris business is great and they don't really care, or they're in really bad shape. Or clueless.
Now that I think of it, Selmer Paris don't have student/intermediate clarinets. So why did the local shops bother becoming Proshops? Hmm.
Anyhoo ...
I heard a rumour from somewhere, that there's something new coming from Selmer later this year. I wonder what that could be?
J
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-04-22 14:24
Clarineteer wrote:
> Is it possible that 80% of clarinet owners are wrong in their
> choice of Buffet?
There's probably a good chance that significant fraction of those players have never played or even tried anything other than Buffet so it's tough to say whether their choice was the right one or simply the only one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
