 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-18 20:26
Remember that old wooden Bundy I asked about earlier, and you all determined it was from the 50s? IT PLAYS!!!! The tone is great! All I need to do is get it polished up and checked out! I was amazed by the deep, rich tone. I paid VERY little for it, and unless there is something wrong with it that I can't hear, it was worth it! I'm happy to have it (not to sell, just for personal use). It should look great polished. I hate the way the bell looks, so I will probably look for a new one (it's not the original bell that came with it anyway, it's a Pedler). So really, this isn't a question, I just had to share!
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-04-18 20:29
When I was in the Ohio State Fair bandyears ago as a highschooler,one of the best players in the clarinet section one year played one of these. It sounded great.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2013-04-18 20:52
An intact wooden Pedler bell should be easy to sell on the leading online auction site. Once you get a Bundy bell, you could recover its cost by selling off the Pedler bell.
The Resonite bells that were equipped with wooden Bundys had bell rings, while most of the all-Resonite Bundys did not have them. Look for one with a ring if you want to do a proper restoration.
Based on my experience with a 1950s Resonite Bundy, I had a hunch you would be surprised with how good your wooden Bundy is. Both of these instruments used the Selmer (Paris) Balanced Tone as the basis for their design, and there is a certain "Selmer-ness" to the way mine plays. I'm glad that you're enjoying yours!
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-18 21:11
Great idea about the bell! I certainly am enjoying it! I'm like a kid in a candy store, only with clarinets! haha
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-18 21:13
One other thing...it plays extremely well in the altissimo range!
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-18 23:28
The only really annoying thing is that open G sounds way off! The barrel that came with it isn't that good. I put my vito resotone barrel on it just to see, and that helped, so I guess I'll be looking for the best barrel to fit this clarinet. Maybe the Bundy Resotone??
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-19 08:09
Flat. When I put my plastic barrel on it, it raises the pitch some, but it makes the A and A flat sharp. I am probably going to get a Bundy Resonite barrel and bell like someone above suggested. I have been looking on "that auction site" to see what is available.
I think getting a tune up will really help too! This clarinet has a very pretty and full sound, and it would be a shame to let it go to waste!
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-04-19 17:56
I've just fixed a problem with the open G tuning on one of my clarinets. The cause was the thumb ring pivot sticking, causing the small pad under the A key to stay partially open. Might be worth a look.
Tony F.
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-19 19:24
Definitely, Tony, I will certainly check (and mention it to the person who looks at it when I take it in for a tune up)! Thank you for suggesting that!
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2013-04-24 04:38
I've had great luck with all the wood Bundy's I've restored. A couple of the early (pre-war made-in France-by- Selmer) models are very nice, and I have one that was probably made early in the war years in the US but with entirely french parts.
The styling/keywork became a little less elegant when Bundy's became all-american made, but they continue to play and sound beautiful with a good mouthpiece.
All my Bundy's (later called Signets) have wooden bells . My understanding was that only some of the later standard-level Signets came with the resonite bells, but I could be wrong.
Clark G. Sherwood
Post Edited (2013-04-24 16:29)
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-24 05:03
I am very excited about having this one restored! I thought about trying to find a Selmer wooden bell and barrel. I have seen them on "that auction site." Every time I have told someone I have a wooden Bundy, they have good things to say.
This is a well-made horn for sure! No doubt this horn was well-used, but it was obviously well taken care of too, and it has a great sound. If we can get the open G and A and Bb in tune, it will be amazing!
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-08-21 22:07
if I may ask.. what is the serial # on it and where is it located? also by any chance does logo looks like {BUNDY} and posted on both low/top joints?
I am refinishing a horn which may be a wooden Bundy with PM Artist bell
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2013-08-24 00:49
Checked a couple of my pre-Signet Bundy's. Logo as you describe (all Capital letters), but on UJ and Bell only.
Serial # on bottom of UJ only.
Bundy keywork is distinct in that the pad cups have a round top, and rounded corners where the cup edge is formed to hold the pad. Just about all other makers cups have a peaked top (like a tent) and sharp corners where the cup is formed to hold the pad.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-08-24 11:14
Clark,
Thank you.
If I may, what is the # range on Bundies you looked at? are they about the same age (15,xxx) or much later? Is it even 5-digit or 6-digit number?
I went over keywork and it looks very much PM, not Bundy as you describe. Except for the 4-post on throat keys it looks exactly like USN one but mine ~250 #s younger.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-24 11:56
I've worked on some wooden Signet clarinets and while they are very utilitarian in their build, they do play surprisingly well once they're set up - not quite Selmer Series 9 level, but not too far off.
Even the .590 bore plastic Bundys can play well - I used one (although it was stamped Buescher Aristocrat) when I was doing my GCSE Music performance exams while my B&H 2-20 was being rebuilt.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2013-08-26 22:07
My wood (pre-Signet) US Bundy's (BUNDY in caps) are in the high 5 digit to low 6 digit range, made in the late 60's - early '70's, I think.
I have several GM Bundy- Paris (GM Bundy in script, like a signature, in the 3 - 4 digit range, made, I believe in the 1920's to '30s. They all have typical french keywork, not the rounded cup US style.
I have one SELMER-BUNDY Special Elkhart, Indiana #73XX , logo in caps on UJ,LJ, and bell that I believe was assembled in the 40's using french keywork shipped over before the Nazis took over the Selmer -Paris factory.
All my wood Bundy's, even into the '70s have 3-post throat keys, as I think all my Signets have too. If yours has 4 post throat keys its probably not a Bundy. Most of the clarinet manufacturers switched to 4-post layout in the 50's or 60's (there should be other posts on that subject) if memory serves.Don't know if Bundy ever did switch to 4-post, as I don't have any of the newer ones.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-08-27 04:41
Clark,
I have cleaned the body (actually oil soaked in) and more fine details become visible.
First of all it definitely had {BUNDY} logo in typical for PM places on lower and upper joints. You can almost read it on lower but on upper it was definitely there too.
I bought this as PM Artist, but what threw me off initially that for PM Artist the Eagle mark, 15,xxx number at the bottom of UJ and LJ would mean 3-posts, and this one is a 4 post. And it definitely has erased {BUNDY} logo, in addition to Penzel-Mueller Artist on bell.
I almost thought that it must have been Alexandre Paris stencil Bundy. G. Bundy had bought out factory from Alexandre Selmer, and at some point both Alexandre and Bundies were made under the same roof.
Also supposedly Alexandre was the one to introduce 4-post design to Selmer Paris when he got back to France.
However the printed ad with Alexandre/Bundy from that era shows both of them 3-post design, and as you said, wooden Bundies you see are all 3-post. And BUNDY from that serial # era did not use {BUNDY} logo yet.
Anyways, as oil dried out, it looks like there were 2 more places with serial # posted, vertical, on a right side, where the post WWII Penzel-Muellers had serial #.
on UJ it reads N(or H)15.... (rest erased completely, but it must have been the same 15,xxx number) and on LJ you can't read beginning but the # is exactly where it should be, and it ends with B, which means Bb clarinet in Penzel-Mueller markings.
I also took some keys off PM Empire with # H15,xxxB (if Artist is H-series then they must be less then 100 apart!) and all measurements, posts, cutouts, inserts for register key, hard rubber chimneys, etc look identical.
And 4-post is typical for post WWII PM. There are online copies of 1949 Penzel Mueller catalog featuring 4-posts.
Now {BUNDY} logo was used after WWII, and wooden Bundies were supposedly produced up until 1948?. Also the WWII cut off the supply from Europe, so Selmer USA must have scrambled around to find anything to sell?
Does this mean that Penzel-Mueller was making Bundies for Selmer at some point? Perhaps Selmer stopped buying them or PM needed to deliver it under military contract so they erased BUNDY logo and delivered it to Marine Corps?
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2013-08-29 16:44
Lots of interesting info for the 'old farts' archives! Wouldn't surprise me if PM and Bundy got together to fulfill a military contract, since their parts supply from Paris was unceremoniously cut off.
There was probably more cooperation between manufacturers than is generally supposed. I've noticed in my metal clarinets that the student level H.M. White clarinets bear a startling resemblance to the Ohio Band Inst. clarinets, and they were supposed to be fierce competitors!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-08-29 21:19
that is not surprising since Reynolds was a superintendent and worked for H White for 30+ years.
http://www.hnwhite.com/hnwhitepage.htm
We have an 1940 mil issue Silver King NP, and after we got tenon cork done right it is a fine playing instrument. That double wall barrel edge gets bent when dropped, and it is not easy to get it round again. And good luck trying to keep it from sliding down!
Nothing needed other then cleaning, oiling and small adjustments. Felt pads (original?) were in top shape.
I hope this PM-Bundy-looks-like-Alexandre would sound as nice when it is done. Thnx for help
Post Edited (2013-08-30 03:00)
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