 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Eina Kari Rajesh
Date: 2013-04-14 19:56
Hi. Being an adult beginner, playing with vandorean 3.5 strength reed, finding quite uneasy to sustain the tone for longer duration. I played with 2.5 only for a week or so, and was quite comfortable. Pls suggest me how to improve my emboucher and play comfortably with 3.5 strength reeds.
thanks
EKR
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-04-14 20:58
Eina -
Stick with #2.5 reeds for the time being, or go at most to #3. Reed strength is not a contest, with either the reed or other players. It's using what works.
The best way to strengthen your embouchure by is playing long tones and slow scales. If that gets boring, play slow legato music, such as the Brahms lullaby. Church hymnals have hundreds of tunes that are perfect for this. Always play them as if you were singing, binding the notes together into long lines.
Ken Shaw
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-14 23:51
Definitely stick with the 2.5. It would be rare for someone to start on a 3.5. Since you say a 2.5 is comfortable, go with it, you can move up later if you like, but like Ken said, "Reed strength is not a contest..."
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: Eina Kari Rajesh
Date: 2013-04-15 12:14
ken, curlyev
thanks, shall continue with #2.5 for now, the problem with me is that vandoren reeds are not readily available here with the stores, hence I purchased a pack of 10 #3.5 reeds from a professional here. so I would like to use it as I have only one #2.5 reed. Pls suggest me other brands of good quality, I tried with Rico #3, but played out quickly.
I am playing with Yamaha YCL 250, a brand new one, and enjoying learning playing. I am serious about clarinet and would like to appear for the board exams, though my profession is entirely different form music. Could you please tell me how far can I go with YCl 250 with respect to grades. I love clarint music and would like to enjoy it for the rest of my life.
EKR
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-15 12:53
A Yamaha 250 will take you to Grade 5, then after that you shoud consider a wooden pro level clarinet which will take you beyond Grade 8. But still keep your plastic clarinet for any outdoors playing or as a back-up clarinet if your wooden one has to go for repair.
In all honesty, starting on a 2.5 is still a bit too strong - beginning on a 2 would be better, but as you're already on 2.5s, keep on using them for as long as you feel they're working well for you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-04-15 13:48
Find a way to get some 3.0 reeds, 3.5's are too hard for a beginner.
What mouthpiece are you using?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Eina Kari Rajesh
Date: 2013-04-15 16:39
Paul
I am using Yamaha 4C, which came as a complete kit with the clarinet. Now, after about 2 hours of practice with #3.5 reed, my confidence level has gone up with respect to tone and holding it.
How long, generally, will it take to prepare for grade 5 and then to grade 8 with an hour a day of dedicated practice.
BTW I started playing since March 1st.
EKR
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-04-15 17:03
FWIW: It's great that the 3.5's have helped with your tone and holding on to it.
I'm an adult who has started (again) to learn the clarinet. I have found that 2.5's were great until I started into the low altissimo region (mainly B and C above the staff). I needed to move to the 3.0. I tried, for fun, a 3.5, and yes, some of my tone did improve. The price was that I started tensing up with my emboucher and even caught myself "biting" (gasp, gasp) in order to get a really focused sound. I agree with Paul and Ken and their recommendation. So, I'm back to the 3.0 and working on my emboucher and relaxing. I use a VanDoren B30 (?) with a Backun Barrel.
Tristan
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-15 17:07
Think of reed strength as weights - if you're doing weight training to build up stamina, you wouldn't start out on a 35kg weight as that will not only be difficult to lift easily, but it can cause damage early on, so best to start on 10kg weights and gradually build up to 35kg weights over time.
Same with reeds - you ideally want to begin on easy reeds to build up your emouchure muscles over time and then move up half a strength when you find the reed you started on is too soft, again this is done over time (talking months instead of days or hours here) as that way you'll develop your jaw and lip muscles gradually. If you use a strong reed from the word go, it'll be tough going and you may end up doing yourself more harm than good.
Reed strength isn't indicative of your status as a player, it's what is suitable for the mouthpiece you're using and the ease of playability for you - nothing to do with what anyone else is playing. It's not a competition.
While a harder reed will give the impression of a good tone, your articulation and control will suffer, so learn to control a comfortable reed first before even considering moving to a harder reed. Most pros in the UK rarely ever play anything harder than a 3 or 3.5 (depending on their mouthpiece) and I'm talking seasoned professionals here - and they make a great sound on reeds which don't resemble floorboards.
As for the ABRSM exams, it can take maybe between two to eight years or more depending on your will to learn, musicality and technical ability to get to Grade 8 level.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Eina Kari Rajesh
Date: 2013-04-15 17:50
Thanks Chris and All.
This is such a great place for a novice like me to have you experts advice. I hope to make it, grade 8 level, in two years. Yes, obviously, I play for the pleasure of playing clarinet, but still the grade recognisation will help me to perform locally with other professionals.
Once again thanks, and may get back to you for having a clear view of the techniques and playing skills.
EKR
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-15 18:47
Take things steady and don't try to get ahead of yourself too quickly - you can come unstuck if you rush things. While some teachers like to push their pupils through exam after exam just to notch up the figures, that doesn't mean they're good teachers or their pupils turn out to all be great clarinettists.
If you travel at full speed right through to the end, you'll only end up missing everything that's going on around you, so learn to step back and do other things than concentrating solely on exam music - gain other experiences while you're learning and that will make you a better musician instead of just a player.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-04-15 19:29
The Yamaha 4C is a fairly open mouthpiece, which requires softer reeds than, for example, the middle-of-the-road 3C.
To bring down the strength of the #3.5 reeds, get a sheet of 400 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper (the kind with the black coating), put it on a flat surface (preferably glass), dampen the bottom of the reed, put your fingers on just the bark and sand until the bottom is shiny. Then put three fingers on the vamp (but not on the tip) and sand very lightly, with almost no pressure. Test after every few strokes until the hardness is the way that works best.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-04-16 01:18
The specs show that the 4C clarinet mouthpiece is the same as the 4CM. Both spec out at 1.05 opening which categorizes them in the close to normal range, not open. A 3.5 reed would then be in the average range for a close to normal open mouthpiece. Even a 3 reed with this type of mouthpiece could be considered to be in the mid range, not soft range. IMHO
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-04-16 03:44
Some other brands to consider would be Mitchell Lurie (made by Rico) or Rico Royal. You will get more good reeds out of a box. Since you are a beginner, you don't need to spend time trying to mess with reeds, you need something that will play out of the box. The orange box Ricos are the worst of all the Ricos, but I started out on them and La Voz. I still enjoy playing on the La Voz reeds. If you try them, I'd suggest starting on a medium soft reed. Good luck!
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-16 10:49
A 3.5 reed with the 4C mouthpiece might happen to be average for an experienced player, but definitely not for beginners who should start on much softer reeds.
I do wish people wouldn't take these reed strengh suggestion charts and other literature as gospel - they're only suggestions for players with many years of experience and bear no relation to beginning players who will have to start on much softer reeds. They are also not a goal to aim for, so just because you happen to play on a 3 when the chart suggests a 3.5 or more doesn't mean you're a failure.
Play on the reed strength that's comfortable for you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-04-16 20:32
I agree with Chris about not ready charts to determine your proper reed strength. My comment was aimed at what I believe to be a mis-identification of the opening for a 4c or 4cm Yamaha mouthpiece. In my opinion, a 1.05 opening is not considered open but really more like closed to normal. For me this same mouthpiece (a 4cm) requires that I use a 3.0 Legere on an R-13 or a 2.75 Legere on a Yamaha CSV clarinet. (The Yamaha being naturally more restrictive than the Buffet). A Legere reed runs 1/4 to 1/2 strength stronger for me than a cane reed like a Vandoren. So I am using a combination which is perhaps not even as strong as what this beginner is using. From my experience there is absolutely no advantage in using a combination which is stronger than you need to create a combination of ease and control. I would not be ashamed of dropping down to a 2.5 if I were just starting out. I know of at least one professional clarinetist playing in the local opera symphony who uses a 2.5 reed on an R-13. Somehow he makes it work well for him.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: clairmusic
Date: 2013-04-16 22:44
Try using rico classic reserve reeds. They are much mor consistant then vandorens. They play right out of the box. Easy to play on. These reeds are all that I use now after 20+ yrs. they have a nice "color" to them and they also come in plus sizes. 2 1/2 2 1/2+ amd so on. 3 1/2 will probably work just fine. A little stiffer reed will help with your tone to. Good luck!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-17 09:42
So what do you suggest for a beginner - start them on a 4? How about a 5 - or why not just put the reed on the wrong way round and be done with it?
Come on people, don't confuse a thick, wooly tone for a good tone. The correct strength reed to suit the INDIVIDUAL should be one which offers a clear tone in the lower register, isn't taxing on endurance and will ofer a clean, crisp articulation. YOU DON'T GET THAT WITH REEDS RESEMBLING FLOORBOARDS!
Start on a SOFT reed to get the basics right, then and only when you feel that's too soft, then move up half a strength.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-04-17 09:42)
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Author: tims
Date: 2013-04-21 07:31
A reed should always play freely. Reed strength by itself means very little. Definitely harder does not mean better. The same reed will play differently on different mouthpieces and even different horns. The quality of the reed is far more important. This does not mean what brand, but the quality of the individual reeds in a box. If you are a beginner, then you are probably not ready to begin a major course in learning reed adjusting techniques, so mostly you will just have to try out several reeds to find the ones that give you your best tone and response and be willing to throw out the bad ones (or sell them to people who know how to do adjustments).
There is a persistent myth that harder is better and I've seen otherwise good players develop some of the worst embouchures and poorest sound believing this myth to be true despite their lip and their tone telling them otherwise. One of my first teachers studied at the Paris Conservatory in the early 60's and played amazingly using 1 1/2 strength reeds. He believed the softest reed you could control was the best, and for him that worked very well.
Reeds are always "what works for you". A size 9D shoe works well for me, but I would never suggest that everyone should wear that size. What this means in reality is that you will need to try different brands and different strength on a regular basis until you become a more proficient player. Eventually you will settle on a brand and a strength you like.
At some point you may wish to try different mouthpieces, but you should always be prepared to have several different strength reeds ready and possibly a couple of different brands, otherwise you may pass up a better mouthpiece simply because it doesn't work with the reeds you are currently using.
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