 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: P4sEnvy
Date: 2013-03-18 16:43
I have a 197x Buffet Evette Master Model Clarinet - it's a very fine clarinet!
However, the A and Bb are very sharp, around ~45 cents off.
I know that the A is usually a very sharp note in and of itself, and at my All-Region Band Clinic, our director told me to use the ( A O X X / X O X Eb ) fingering to bring the pitch down. It worked a little bit, but it's still almost not playable it sounds so wrong.
I had a very reputable repairman look at it, and he made some fine adjusments but nothing seemed to work...
Any ideas? Or am I stuck here?
Post Edited (2013-03-18 16:50)
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2013-03-18 16:51
What sort of mouthpiece do you play on? Length of barrel?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-03-18 17:06
I fixed a sharp A and Bb by inserting a crescent-shaped piece of cork into the throat "A" tonehole, thusly lowering the position of the "A" hole (no pun intended) a bit, at the sacrifice of a wee bit of clarity.
More likely is that you have too short a barrel. Pull it out by ~2mm and see if things improve (and other notes don't get significantly worse).
--
Ben
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2013-03-18 17:07
Even with the usual resonance fingerings, it's not unusual for throat A to be sharp. It does depend on the mouthpiece: it will be relatively flatter with Vandoren 13-series mouthpieces, but for many people this overdoes it and yields throat notes that are unusably flat. So you could see if those mouthpieces work for you. The alternative is to fill in the holes for A and Aflat. This is very commonly done, and it's simple to do it yourself. I use bluetac for this purpose: it
grips well and is easily adjusted until you get the tuning spot on.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-03-18 17:11
Fortunately, there is no concern about twelfths with throat A, as there is with the notes fingered along the rest of the clarinet's length. Is the A key venting the right amount or is it opening too far? What about the G# that opens with it? You don't mention sharpness with G#. If venting is OK on both notes (the tech no doubt checked that), then the problem is most likely with the size of the A tone hole or perhaps both the A and G# tone holes. One way to bring the pitch down is to put tape - preferably cloth tape or maybe plastic electrical tape (my preference) - in the upper half of the hole. It's better for control to apply it with small tweezers, which you can then use to tamp it down firmly. You don't want it loose and flapping around. Do it in layers - one thickness of tape at a time - until you get down to the pitch. If you get to a point where the note becomes stuffy, you may have to compromise. If G# is sharp as well, you can bring that down the same way - do G# first because it will also bring A down. Keep the inside edge of the tape from extending into the bore.
If you successfully correct the pitch with tape in the hole, you can leave it there or try to duplicate the effect with nail polish or something similar also built up in layers. I generally leave the tape alone once the pitch is where I need it, but adhesive bleeding at the edges can conceivably catch dust and, depending on the tape you use it may come loose one day and need to be re-done. Of course the advantage to tape is that it isn't permanent - if a different mouthpiece or barrel one day changes the throat intonation, all you need to do is remove the tape, clean the hole and re-apply fresh tape to the thickness needed for the new equipment.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-03-18 17:15
John, I thought about bluetac for this but have never used it myself - does it hold dust enough to cause problems? What do you use to shape it in the tone hole? Do you apply it in layers or all at once and adjust the amount if it turns out to be too little or too much.
Karl
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-03-18 18:15
Karl I've used blutac on my basset clarinet and use it exclusively to tune my classical and baroque clarinets. I apply with a screw driver (the small jewel ones) to seat it and then use the end of the screw driver to flaten it to the desired shape and thickness. Then it's best to play the note and see where it lies, also play the notes above and below to see if its had an effect on them. If its not as you want it repeat the process with more or less blutac. I've never found that it holds dust or anything like that. The only thing I've ever noticed is it can get dirty though that's not an issue on a modern clarinet due to the rings.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-03-18 18:37
How is the open G in comparison? If that is good then I suggest you line the top half of the tone holes with electrical tape.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-18 19:03
It sounds like your barrel is too short. It should measure 66 mm. or thereabouts.
The amount that the keys open an be easily adjusted with thicker corks.
A good, resonant fingering for throat A, with a slightly lower pitch, is to add the left ring finger, the right index and middle fingers and the low F key. For the Bb, use the side key or add the two ring fingers and the low F key.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-03-18 21:35)
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Author: P4sEnvy
Date: 2013-03-18 19:54
I'm playing on a Vandoren B45; not so sure of the length of the barrel however there was another that came with the clarinet, but if I play on it, the open G registers as a concert F# instead of an F.
With my regular barrel, when I try to pull out a little for the A to become in tune, the concert F becomes out of tune.
The G# is not much out of tune ~5-10 cents or so.
yes, i've been using the A and register key for Bb, however my tech said that the side key Bb will be in tune (it works!)
I'll try the tape out and see if this fixes my tuning problems - I'm sure it will if done correctly!
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-03-18 22:13
Is there a chance that the adjustment screw on the A key is out too far?
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-03-19 22:54
The fix would depend on the tuning of the Ab and G. If it gets progressively sharper as you ascend then your barrel may be too short. If you need the short barrel for the rest of the clarinet then start filling tone holes. Bringing the Ab down in pitch will also bring the A down slightly, so start low.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-03-20 00:06
You need to have someone put tape in the top part of the A hole, I've done that all my life with mine and students clarinets. You put in one piece and try it and another if needed. Just the top half of the hole, from 9:00 to 3:00. A very common practice. Use electrical tape.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2013-03-20 12:23
More on blutack: I think it is superior to tape (although I've never used this), because in many cases you want to preserve the undercutting: i.e. the tonehole should have a bit of flare to it: ) ( rather than | |. If you use a small screwdriver to deposit a bit of blutack half-way down, then you can shape it so the thickness of the layer is less at top and bottom of the hole. It's easy to shave off excess at the top using your fingernail.
The other thing to bear in mind is that you want to change the tuning while altering the venting as little as possible. Therefore you put the blutack only on the top side of the hole, so you move its "centre of gravity" lower down the instrument. Clearly, if you could actually move the hole, you wouldn't need to reduce the diameter at all. So this is better than just lining the hole all the way round.
I've never had this stuff fall out, even after decades. It does gather fluff and needs cleaning after a (long) while - but this happens to all tone holes in any case.
My only wish is that they made it in black, so it wouldn't show when you use it in the finger holes. My solution for this is to get a fine black permanent marker pen and colour it in. Obviously this is unnecessary under the A key.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-03-20 16:18
You do the same things with tape. You have to cut strips narrow enough not to interfere with the undercutting, and you only put it inside the top of the hole's circumference. One real difference, from what everyone has written, is that tape necessarily needs to be added a layer at a time. bluetac apparently is added all at once and shaped. A positive I can imagine for bluetac is that you can smooth the edges - tape forms a slight edge at each end (more or less at 9:00 and 3:00 around the hole). I've never thought this presented a meaningful issue (like Ed P and a couple of other posters, I've always used plastic electrical tape, which is fairly thin).
John, if you end up not bringing the pitch down enough the first time, do0 you pull the bluetac out and start over (as Peter suggested), or will it stick to itself well enough to add more on top of what you've already applied and shaped?
Karl
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2013-03-20 18:13
Karl:
If I need to add more, then I just put a little extra bit on top of what's already there and blend it in. At least, that's if the stuff is fresh: when it's new, it sticks to itself (and everything else) very well. If I wanted to adjust the tuning after years where the surface had got greasy, I'd start again.
But you often can get away without adjusting the amount of material. You can spread it a bit flatter (reducing the flare), or work it up to more of a ridge half-way down the tonehole. The former raises the pitch, and the latter lowers it. So it's really a very flexible solution.
This only works for flattening notes, but it works so well that on occasion it's given me the courage to use a fine file to open up the hole slightly on a flat note, since I can use bluetac to make amends if I don't like the result. I don't do this often, since I don't like the thought of not being able to restore the instrument completely to its initial state. But occasionally you come across a note that is always flat in all playing conditions, and then it makes sense to do something (E above the break on an A clarinet often seems to be a problematic note in this respect).
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-03-21 00:13
Yes, I should have added that the tape is only placed on the upper part of the tone hole, just a thin piece. Good repair people know that if you don't do it yourself. You don't want to have the tape go into the bore or interfere with the undecutting. I don't think I've ever owned a clarinet that didn't need a piece of tape in some hole or another and the A key is the most common.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: P4sEnvy
Date: 2013-03-21 16:33
Well thank you all for the replies!
I actually found something out today..
I switched my B45 for my stock Buffet mouthpiece ("France" stamped on the back) and my a and both Bb were in tune.
So now I guess my problem lies within my embouchure on my B45, I guess.
I have no other idea what the problem is - so what should I do?
Take my clarinet to get repaired for the problematic A/Bb tuning with my B45 or just use the stock mouthpiece (no idea how good these are, I love my tone with my B45).
hmmm.
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