 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rickwbliss
Date: 2013-03-09 14:41
Hi, I had just currently took interest in this clarinet, I know it's an "intermediate" clarinet, but I've contacted Dave Kessler from Kessler's Music, and he told me the Bliss 210 is one of his all time favorite clarinets, and he would even choose the Bliss instead of Buffet's r13, and rc although it's ranked at the same level as an e11, or e12f. So, what do you guys think of this clarinet. (the Bliss 210 is an all wood instrument) Thanks! ;P
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-09 17:01
Rick,
To be fair, that wasnt my exact quote. I said that in many areas (intonation, response, ease of play), for many players, I would pick the 210 over the R13. However, I noted that the R13 had simply the better overall tone.
To ellaborate further, I said that when paired with a Backun MoBa barrel, I then think that the 210 gets closer to the tone of the R13.
Regardless, I think the 210 is an excellent overall clarinet and offers the better dollar per dollar value. On the Buffet's, my personal favorite is the Festival.
Hope that clears that up some.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Rickwbliss
Date: 2013-03-09 17:27
So, do you think that the bliss 210 is at the same level as the e13? Thanks for clearing things out for me I didn't quite catch that the first time we contacted. Sorry:(
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-09 18:17
I had a bliss 210 for a short while. I think Mr Kessler's comments are accurate of what I would say. I didn't like the stock barrel, but put a good quality barrel on it and it was a very good instrument and a joy to play. Definitely great quality. I don't own it anymore as I have other instruments I think are better and wouldn't use it as much.
But I thought it was a great horn. I was really REALLY hoping for a leblanc bliss A clarinet, but alas, it was just a dream for me I guess.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-03-09 19:19
I have a Bliss with the MoBa barrel. Nice horn for the money and free-blowing, which I like. The black nickel keys showed wear and fading after a year so, I say, go with the silver nickel keys.
To my ear, a good R13 (might have try several to get a good one I read) has a superior tone but, you're also looking at a horn that's twice the cost of the Bliss. Kind of the apples and oranges issue.
Within the price range, in my opinion, a better comparative to the Bliss/MoBa combo (probably around $1600 US combined) would be the Yamaha 650.
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Author: Rickwbliss
Date: 2013-03-09 21:08
How much does a MoBa barrel cost if it actually improves the sound a lot?
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-03-09 22:07
"How much does a MoBa barrel cost..."
Looks like $275. You're already dealing with Dave Kessler (and you won't find anyone better, in my opinion) so, see what you can work out.
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-03-10 02:12
Joe Bloke wrote:
>.... You're already dealing with Dave Kessler (and
> you won't find anyone better, in my opinion) so, see what you
> can work out.
Ditto, Dave Kessler is outstanding to work with. He won't do you wrong...
Tristan
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Author: Rickwbliss
Date: 2013-03-10 14:48
So, what would you guys choose, a so-so R13 without any upgrades, or a really good Bliss 210 with MoBa barrel? Thanks!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-10 15:43
Assuming price was a factor and I'm not intending to go pro, I'd pick the $$$ savings of a used 210 with upgraded barrel and possibly a bell. If $$$ wasn't as much of an issue OR i want the option of getting into a professional section sonewhere, I'd pick a used R13 and find a tech to voice and tune it (probably about $400-$500). If money was no object, I'd hand pick which instrument I wanted (regardless of brand or model) and even maybe then look at some upgrades.
Fwiw, at least for a few years after they came out, Julian bliss would make a point to perform on his Leblanc bliss every now and then. And he sounded pretty darn good on it. Maybe his was more heavily customized, maybe not, but at least know the horn is capable of sounding good in hands of someone who can really play.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2013-03-10 15:49)
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Author: Rickwbliss
Date: 2013-03-10 16:00
Well, I saw Julian Bliss in my local Music store, and he is really good, I did take a close look on his Bliss, I think it's the same thing as the ones there are on display downstairs...
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-10 16:06
Rickwbliss wrote:
> Well, I saw Julian Bliss in my local Music store, and he is
> really good, I did take a close look on his Bliss, I think it's
> the same thing as the ones there are on display downstairs...
>
Actually, I need to change something in my statement. I know it wasn't a heavily customized leblanc bliss he played. I remember being at clarinetfest and he would select one of the blisses from Backun's table, go perform on it, and then place it back on the table after his performance for the customers to try and maybe even purchase. So it was a stock bliss he performed on at least those two times I saw him perform, and it was a bliss clarinet that was in with the rest for sale or trial.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DaveKessler
Date: 2013-03-10 16:07
Rick,
Overall, it all depends on price. For the budget range, the 210 with a MoBa barrel (one of my store demo models can be had with the barrel for rougly $1,125.00) is a phenomenal value.
The E13 is a very good clarinet, but has started to really creep in price and most customers would pick the Bliss/MoBa package over the E13 in store when tried side by side.
The new E12F is actually a very good clarinet. I was not a fan of the "E11 France" clarinet that the E12F has evolved from, but with the changes that Buffet has employed on the E12F, it is actually a clarinet that I would recommend to customers who would prefer the more traditional open Buffet sound over the more focused sound of the Bliss.
We occassionally get in a good used R13 that we will put through our $400 "ProShop Overhaul" and then hand select a new barrel & bell package for (usually a Backun Traditional bell, but with a barrel from either Buffet or Backun that we felt best performed on the particular instrument) around $2,000 - $2,200. These setups always go fast when I have them. If you can be patient, I can put you on a list for the next time I get one.
Thanks to everyone else on the comments.
Dave Kessler
Kessler & Sons Music
http://www.kesslermusic.com
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-03-10 17:58
Rick:
A couple of more things on the Bliss/MoBa:
I also added a Backun mouthpiece (MoBa Arabesque 1.19mm, $375), which plays more open than the stock mouthpiece that comes with the horn. Might not be the mouthpiece for you but, worked great for me (Dave can help with this).
Also, follow the break-in instructions (Leblanc website) closely. I foolishly played the horn too long when I got it (my first new clarinet so, couldn't put it down) and had some trouble with the joints swelling. Easily fixed but, also avoidable ("when all else fails, read the insturctions")
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