 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: overbest
Date: 2013-03-03 20:34
Hello !
i'm just starting out playing this instrument and have a few questions : (My material is, Buffet E11, 5RV and 2.5 Vando Reeds)
- Is it normal to have water dripping down the bell 10min after playing ? If not, how to resolve this ?
-Firstly, I'm doing what you call long tones, and i'm just messing around with different embouchures, different reed placements... And something is weird: Sometimes I can get a good tone, no airy sound and just a full and round sound, but sometimes it's horrible, I get really lots of air when I push the sound pressure.
Whenever I think I get a "good" tone, I just press a little on the reed with my bottom lip and I've seen people telling that this is wrong... The question is: Do the bottom lip needs to just rest on the reed or it needs a little bit of pressure ?
But then I don't know If i'm doing it wrong and I'm actually changing the pitch of the notes. :'( Help Please!
-I forgot to mention that, when I try to play the high register, I need to change my whole embouchure in order for the notes to come out, and some notes won't even come out. Is it because of the strenght of the reeds ?
Post Edited (2013-03-03 20:36)
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2013-03-04 01:01
I'm only an intermediate, so I'll try to limit what I tell you to what worked for me.
First, if you don't already have one, get a teacher...especially to get you off to a good start.
Also, this forum has wonderful achived posts...just do a search using a keyword you're interested in...and you'll find all kinds of good advice. I've found these posts to be invaluable.
Still, in the beginning, a good teacher is most important.
CarlT
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-03-04 02:09
iCarlT wrote:
> First, if you don't already have one, get a
> teacher...especially to get you off to a good start.
....
> Still, in the beginning, a good teacher is most important.
>
I second CarlT's advice. If you can find a local clarinet teacher, that's great and there is nothing like live instruction.
However, I am an adult beginner whose nearest teacher is about 1 1/2 hours away by car. With technology like Skype, the internet, etc., lessons can reach us no matter where you are. You might want to check out YouTube.
To answer your questions:
Yes, lip pressure affects the pitch, tone, timbre of your notes. It's a delicate balance, too much pressure creates a "tight" pitch. It also causes soreness on your lips and jaws.
You do need to adjust you emboucher for the various registers, but I don't think the emboucher should need to be totally changed to reach both the clarion and altissimo registers. Try using the corners of your mouth. Your lower lip should be firm, but allow the reed the freedom to vibrate.
I right now am working playing through the throat tones -- "across the break." I find this to require a great deal of concentration.
Tristan
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Author: overbest
Date: 2013-03-04 02:24
And what about the jaw pressure ? This is driving me insane... There seem to be a huge debate among clarinetists whenever the embouchure needs to be "static" "firm" "loose" "tight" etc. so much things to think of... And now with better sounding I'm not so sure if what I'm doing is right or wrong anymore.
Right now I'm not learning anything besides getting a good sound.
I went through forums, lots of videos on YT, lessons etc. and I just don't have any idea anymore.
I do agree for a teacher, but it's rather expensive in my country. Oh well. Maybe for an hour or two.
Do I bite ? Maybe I press the reed a little to get a good sound ? But since it's the absolute thing to avoid doing *sigh*
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-03-04 10:00
To answer your first question....... yes, it is normal to have the condensation caused by your HOT breath flowing into the horn finally start to drip out the bottom after about 10 minutes or so. Times will vary depending on the relative humidity in the space your playing of course.
I liked your FIRST characterization better when you said "lip pressure." Once you start to get into the idea of consciously putting pressure with your jaw (ie biting) then you begin to speak of TOO MUCH PRESSURE !!!!
I don't know exactly how much pressure the average human jaw can impart per square inch but I'm sure it's way more than what was referred to above moving from octave to octave.
So continue to view this as lip or embouchure pressure (equally applied ALL AROUND the mouthpiece, "down" from above, "in" from the sides and "up" from the bottom, like a rubberband really).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Steve L
Date: 2013-03-04 11:18
Don't let this drive you insane. It'll take time to master because all the variables are so small.
I will just describe the way I progressed.
Initially with undeveloped embouchure muscles my jaws were more involved with actually producing sounds. This meant I tended to bite and this resulted in a sore lower lip.
The best analogy for correct jaw position I had read was I think from Tony Pay who described that your jaws should be like an adjustable spanner (wrench).
In other words when your embouchure is set your jaws should be more or less static.
Knowing this is one thing but putting it into practice is another.
In the beginning I found that jaw pressure made up for lack of refinement in embouchure muscles, but eventually, knowing what you should be doing, your body finds its way and your jaws become less and less involved (or they might be still very much involved, but in a less obvious way).
As I move into the altissimo register I can still sense that my jaws apply slightly more pressure than the lower registers but never enough to make my lip sore.
What I'm trying to say is that don't concern yourself too much about biting because in the beginning its unavoidable, but as long as you keep in mind what you should be doing eventually it will work its way out. Just enjoy playing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-04 12:25
If you feel you're having to use a lot of jaw pressure an find it very tiring, drop down half a strength as 2.5 may be too hard to begin with.
Your embouchure muscles, just like any muscles will get tired using reeds that are too strong for you just as exercising with weights that are too heavy for you will cause you to tire out quickly, cause muscle pain or do damage early on.
But do find a teacher as soon as you can just so they can out you on the right tracks before you learn any bad habits that may take time to break.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Noqu
Date: 2013-03-05 07:12
Something my teacher told me at this stage that that helped me a lot: Think of your lips as a ring, and try to stiffen/tighten/firm up that ring. Gets you a bit away from this "to bite or not to bite" line of thought.
Also, pay close attention to the angle of the clarinet in relation to your body - experiment with moving the bell closer to your belly or further away from it.
Good luck - noqu.
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Author: MichelleAnderson
Date: 2013-03-09 05:15
Hello - I think some great advice has been written on this forum about thinking of your lips as rounding in around the mouthpiece. The truth is that there has to be a bit of jaw pressure on the reed, or you will get only air hiss, and no reed vibration. Most people run into trouble when they inadvertently overdo the biting. I learned a great technic from Bil Jackson to check if your jaw pressure is on the right track. You can find it explained at:
http://youtu.be/a2TUGyTslUM
If you can get that "embouchure tester fingering" loud and clear, with no squeaks, then you are not biting too much. Don't worry about it. If you do squeak, it may indicate that you are biting more than is ideal, and usually, focusing on bringing the corners of your mouth in more actively will solve this.
If your high notes are not coming out easily, it may be a really common challenge for new players. When we are concentrating, and trying something that feels difficult, our body naturally tenses up. If this happens in the jaw, you can actually squeeze the reed shut so that no sound will come out. The video above should help you find a balance point where the notes come out more easily.
I have posted some other high register advice for newer players at:
http://youtu.be/tFWlx57f82A
Perhaps something in that video might help as well. I believe that if you have a good core embouchure and good air support, you shouldn't need to change your embouchure at all moving from the low register to the high register. It is only in the higher altissimo range that you need to apply a different jaw pressure. I often enjoy coaching a new player to shape a good embouchure, ensure they are blowing with a fast airstream, and then turn their mouthpiece around so that they blow, and I do the fingering. They do not know when I will be playing high notes, and when I will finger low notes. They just think they are sustaining an open G. What usually comes out are beautiful notes throughout the entire chalumeau and clarion registers. Doing long tones, as you are, is a great practise strategy to develop your core embouchure and airstream.
I wouldn't recommend going to a softer reed, as that can make the higher notes more challenging. As long as you are using good air support, a 2-1/2 is a good beginner reed. Good luck with all of this!
Michelle
Michelle Anderson - www.clarinetmentors.com
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2013-03-09 14:25
What a good hint, Michelle gives about the "embouchure testing fingering". Thanks for giving us that.
One thing I'm just a bit confused on: I've read (and heard from teachers) not to change lip pressure when going to the alitissimo register, but Michelle said,
"It is only in the higher altissimo range that you need to apply a different jaw pressure."
I believe I do use a bit more pressure when going to the altissimo, but is that, in fact, proper (for me, it's an almost imperceptible action anyway).
CarlT
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Author: overbest
Date: 2013-03-09 15:47
Thank you michelle, before posting I did already watched all your videos haha. This helped me a lot, you can't imagine ! Thank you for giving these precious advices for people like myself !
However I wasn't sure about the "jaw pressure", now It's more clear...
But I'm still concerned about some notes that don't want to come out, mainly the High register A and B. Sometimes they do come out, but Forte, and I can't Piano the notes. Sometimes I get only a stopped sound, with air (just like in your video "test your embouchure")
I wonder if this is because I have a too soft reed for my mouthpiece (5Rv ?) or just because I need to work better on my air projection ?
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