 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MGT91123
Date: 2013-02-02 16:58
Hi,
SO I've been playing for two years. I've only been composing my own music since October, but I'd like know if there is a free program out there that can do things such as:
1. change time signature in the middle of a piece
2. grace notes
3. syncopated rhythms.
Again, it needs to be one-hundred percent free.
Thanks
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2013-02-02 18:33
Finale Notepad
http://www.finalemusic.com/NotePad/Default.aspx
I'm sure on the limitations of the software, but I know some classmates have used it in the past.
Let me know if it meets your needs!
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Author: greenslater
Date: 2013-02-02 19:25
I'm also not sure of the exact limitations but have a look at musescore,
<www.musescore.org>
Good luck
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-02-02 22:46
Musescore and/or Lilypond. Either has a learning curve...
--
Ben
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Author: Buster
Date: 2013-02-02 23:08
>> Again, it needs to be one-hundred percent free. <<
Get what you pay for; but let us know if you find something.
-Jason
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2013-02-02 23:21
Some people swear by Lilypond. Those same people tend to print weird-looking parts full of errors. I can't know if it's the software or user at fault.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-02-03 03:40
Lilypond, last time I checked, is (was) text/script based. It isn't WYSIWYG, which means a learning curve to get comfortable with the scripting language and more opportunity for error, since you don't see the result immediately. It's supposed to be a very strong program.
Karl
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2013-02-03 05:30
I use Finale Notepad for rough work. No grace notes, changing time signatures, or changing keys. I'm mostly a songwriter. If I were composing anything classical, I'd choose between Sibelius and Finale, both far from free, because life is too short to shovel manure with a teaspoon.
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Author: saxmad
Date: 2013-02-03 10:23
MuseScore does all 3 things you're asking for.
It's 100% free and still developing, so more features are being added all the time.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-02-03 10:45
> Some people swear by Lilypond. Those same people tend to print weird-
> looking parts full of errors. I can't know if it's the software or user at fault.
When the parts look weird, then you know there's a typo somewhere...so I'd say it's user error.
Admittedly, Lilypond is not for everyone. If you're a programmer it's easier than if you're a point-and-click person.
--
Ben
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-03 16:12
The most apt descriptions I've heard: Sibelius is a notation program written by musicians, while Finale is a notation program written by computer geeks.
I use Finale a lot, and it is painful --although usually you get what you see on the screen. My old version (2006c) will not do tuples reliably, and if you're putting together the music for an ensemble, there is no guarantee that when you use the program to break out the individual parts that you'll get a clean part.
Every year, Finale will solicit you for another $129 or so to "upgrade." Call it a $10/month tax because you'll probably be unimpressed with the sort of improvements that they make each issue. Sometimes they'll even offer you a Finale Tee shirt. I've found that that won't cure the tuple problem.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-02-03 16:34
>>The most apt descriptions I've heard: Sibelius is a notation program written by musicians, while Finale is a notation program written by computer geeks. <<
There is no way whoever wrote Sibelius is not a computer geek.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-02-03 17:31
Finale has changed to a two-year upgrade cycle.
With all due respect to Mr. Phillips, I have been using Finale since the 1980's (Version 1.0) and have never had a problem with tuplets, no matter how complex.
Since he is using a version that is 6 years old (a lifetime in the computer world) I should take his comments with a grain of salt.
Having used both Finale and Sibelius extensively over a number of years, I can summarize their different approaches:
Finale is best when you want or need to have control over every single aspect of notation, especially for complex contemporary scores.
Sibelius tends to make decisions for you. Granted, these decisions are usually correct, but if you need to over-ride them for some reason, it can be frustrating. The software has become more customizable lately, but the concept still governs the application.
I don't think either program is really user-friendly. How can a complex piece of software be easy to use? Certainly one could not call Photoshop or Illustrator user-friendly. Once you can establish an efficient workflow, either program will be friendly *to you*.
The problem many novices have with both programs is that they expect it to magically be a substitute for musical and theoretical training. It is not.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2013-02-03 17:57
I have used Musescore in the past and it seems to do what I want (which is admittedly not much...) but it does the basics and did not take me long to master. Like all these things, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
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Author: MGT91123
Date: 2013-02-03 19:54
I've tried Musescore and I love it! I've got total respect for finale and Sibelius, but since they cost money it is not the option for me.
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Author: gwlively
Date: 2013-02-03 20:50
Try Noteflight at http://www.noteflight.com/. It's free, and since it is web based, you can access it from any computer that is connected to the web.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2013-02-03 21:35
Musescore produces excellent scores. It is very similar to Sibelius 6, which is no disadvantage because the latest Sibelius 7 uses the Microsoft Office-style ribbon interface, which take up a quarter of the screen. You can input notes into Musescore either by using keyboard letters, a mouse or a midi keyboard. Sibelius or Finale enable you to use orchestral sound libraries, which is good for ambitious composers who wish to write and hear complex scores. Although more limited in this respect, Musescore has some excellent sound fonts, and reproduces just about any instrument there is. Musescore also has a helpful community of users. It is open software and completely free.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-04 15:55
rmk54 offers good advice, and I'd be happy to share my salt when it comes to practical work with Finale.
I do get bugged every year to upgrade my issue of Finale. Many of my colleagues have switched to Sibelius.
The last big job (big on the scale of things I'm willing to do with it) I did with Finale was to enter the Eb Alto saxophone line for Harlem Nocturne, and transpose it to Bb (clarinet), leaving me with the sax and clarinet parts on two staffs in the same file.
Using "print parts" from the Finale file menu gave me a 4-page clarinet part consisting of 3-lines per page. Almost all of the dynamic markings and hairpins came out misplaced. There is no provision in Finale for fiddling with the automated separation of a score into parts.
I scraped the clarinet line from my unison duet and pasted it into a new file, where I was able to make a clean two page clarinet part with everything in its proper place.
A colleague uses (a dated) version of Finale much more fluently than I. He plays an 88 note MIDI keyboard with his left hand and sets note durations with his right hand on the computer's numerical keyboard. He seldom bothers going back over all those flyspecs to put in dynamics, articulation markings, hairpins, slurs, ... We smile at one another as we grab pencils and horns and start inventing interpretations of his stuff.
Covered as I am in salt, I still can't get "put so many 16ths in the space of so many 1/8ths to work to make tuplets. Here's a challenge: create an 1/8 note triplet with the last 1/8th broken into a 1/16 rest followed by a 1/16 note. (and, no, writing it as a tied sextolet doesn't work either). My solution: make the triplet, and put a slash mark to indicate the break before the last note of the triplet.
I know that I'm not a competent Finale guy, but that's me selecting note durations and poking them onto staves with the mouse.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2013-02-04 16:32
Bob Phillips wrote:
>
> Using "print parts" from the Finale file menu gave me a 4-page
> clarinet part consisting of 3-lines per page. Almost all of
> the dynamic markings and hairpins came out misplaced. There is
> no provision in Finale for fiddling with the automated
> separation of a score into parts.
As has been previously pointed out, Finale has had many improvements since the version you use.
It is a rather simple matter to lay out the parts as one wants, since the parts and score are linked now.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: saxmad
Date: 2013-02-04 16:34
Onr problem with Sibelius is that they made their London-based development team redundant and shipped development out to the Ukraine.
Most commentators seem to reckon this is the beginning of the end for Sibelius. Unless the original owners succeed in buying Sibelius back.
It'd be a shame to buy the latest version of Sibelius and in a few years find it's well out of date with no possibility of upgrades....
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-02-04 17:10
I'd suggest you're not far enough around on the learning curve with Finale. I've been using the program since the Dark Ages (before they started using the year to identify upgrades, when it came on 3-1/2" floppies) and I've never found page layout to be a problem. But in older versions you need to "extract" the parts first before you try to print them. The automatic layout (which can still and sometimes must be adjusted) is applied in this extraction process. These steps are combined in, I think, the 2011 and 2012 versions. As to tuplets, they haven't been difficult to do for as far back as I can remember, but you either need to tell Finale (with a specific key press when entering the notes) before entering the first note of the tuplet or, with the tuplet tool chosen, (I think - I don't have Finale open right now) mark the small checkbox attached to the first note of an intended tuplet after it's been entered and check some choices in a properties box to tell Finale how many notes, what value, and what duration the need to fit into. None of this is the least bit intuitive, but it's all in the help files.
Finale isn't as friendly as a Word-type word processor, but, like Word's more advanced features, it's very powerful once you get into the menus. My reaction to Sibelius, FWIW, has always been that for a confirmed Finale user, it's difficult because of all you have to unlearn (it isn't nearly as smooth a process as moving from one word processor to another). For someone just starting out from scratch with a power notation program, it may be a little more intuitive - more word processor-like - than Finale.
But none of this has any relation to the OP's question, since neither program is even close to being available free-of-charge.
Karl
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-02-04 18:04
Bob Phillips wrote:
Covered as I am in salt, I still can't get "put so many 16ths in the space of so many 1/8ths to work to make tuplets. Here's a challenge: create an 1/8 note,triplet with the last 1/8th broken into a 1/16 rest followed by a 1/16 note. (and, no, writing it as a tied sextolet doesn't work either). My solution: make the triplet, and put a slash mark to indicate the break before the last note of the triplet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
You mean like this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19349825/triplet.pdf
This took me 5 seconds.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-02-04 18:31
Attachment: triplet.png (6k)
This is what's required in Lilypond:
\times 2/3 { c8[ c r16 c] }
--
Ben
Post Edited (2013-02-04 18:40)
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2013-02-04 21:12
I said I used Finale Notepad. Presented with a contrabassoon score to play on contra alto clarinet, I gave up trying to read it and downloaded the demo version of Finale PrintMusic. It handles the key and time signature changes just fine. But it's only free for thirty days.
(For what it's worth, I copied the contrabassoon notes into a bassoon part and wrote a matching alto clarinet part to check that I had every transposition correct. *THEN* I realized that I coulda just transposed it, duh.)
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Author: eac
Date: 2013-02-05 12:57
http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/
The evaluation program is free. Even though it says it will expire in 30 days, I've used it for several years. The only drawback is that each time you print, each line of music will have "noteworthy composer" in small font below the line and an evaluation page/purchase page will be printed as well. Works for the occasional needs I have.
Liz Leckey
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-05 15:06
OH. I'll go back into my saved emails and dredge up that latest upgrade offer from Finale.
I'm suitably impressed and humbled, rmk54, to see you beautiful triplet. Thanks.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-02-05 16:22
Maria,
I'd start by taking beejay's advice and giving Musescore a try.
Bob,
On Finale Print Music (2011):
1. Enter Eighth Note, Eighth Note, Sixteenth Rest, Sixteenth Note.
2. Click on tuplet tool on the "Simple Entry" menu.
3. Put cursor on first note entered in step (1).
4. Left click mouse.
Tuplet appears.
-or-
1. Select eighth note and tuplet tool on Simple Entry Menu.
2. Place the cursor on the staff where you want the first note of the tuplet.
3. Left click mouse.
4. Place second eighth note.
5. Place a sixteenth rest.
6. Place sixteenth note.
FWIW, I generally only update when it appears Printmusic has added a feature I need. I think the steps I performed would work on earlier versions, though. I didn't try an earlier version, however, because Coda Music only allows one version active at a time.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-05 22:19
Thank you Jack. That method worked well in Finale 2006c, where the tuplet tool is in a different menu. I've been trying to go from the Tuplet spec to the chart. Here, I selected the notes and then opened the tuplet tool; and it worked well.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2013-02-12 23:44
I just got the 2012c version of Finale running, and it is a HUGE improvement over my 6-year old version (2006c).
You can break out the parts from a score --and edit them!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-02-14 19:57
Have you looked at Sibelius (I think) First? I have the "downsized" version. The full version is ~$500.00, but the other one runs about $99.00. The nice thing about it is that it comes with a music scanner program, an audio program which translates aural input into music, a module to take keyboard input and MIDI input/output. I originally had Sibelius 5 which was very complex, but good for a professional. I downsized to this lighter version and love it.
Tristan
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Author: beejay
Date: 2013-02-15 14:23
I tried Sibelius First. It is good, and has a glitzy interface. But it not nearly so competent as MuseScore (free), As an example, I play basset horn and can score that easily in MuseScore, but not at all in Sibelius First. I did a composition course last year and had to use Sibelius Student, which was very limited. I looked at several of the alternatives, including full Sibelius, which I thought was too expensive and much too grandiose for my needs. In fact, I use Noteworthy Composer for virtually all my writing. It is extremely simple, and produces excellent scores. It allows you to compose your score on a strip, then format once you have finished to fit the score to the page, unlike most other programs, in which you have to fit your score into a template. Admittedly, Sibelius has this feature as an option, too, but at a price. Sibelius costs $500 and Noteworthy about $50. There are many good examples of scores using Noteworthy on their online Scriptorium website, and there is a free reader.
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The Clarinet Pages
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