 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-01-29 00:07
My son has "volunteered" me to play with his Victorian Cornet Band this summer, for which I'll need a Bb clarinet tuned to "high pitch" A circa 453. I know that lots of these antique instruments have been made into table lamps, but I'm hoping to find one in playing condition (or at least restartable).
Preferably Boehm system! Does anyone know of an available instrument I could purchase (or borrow) without refinancing the homestead?
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2013-01-29 12:53
How about a HP Albert system C clarinet?
...of course, I'd have to go digging through the Christmas decorations box. We use it as a treetopper.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-01-29 13:12
High pitch Boehm systems aren't easy to come by, but there should be plently of Albert/simple systems around - especially on e**y.co.uk
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-01-29 13:21)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-01-29 14:02
Thanks, Merlin and Chris! I'm too lazy to transpose Bb parts to C in band music; I will check the resource you suggest, Chris - still hoping to find a Boehm system --hope springs eternal!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-29 14:22
I might have one, Larry, I'll look tonight. You really should keep an eye on that son of yours........
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-01-31 23:18
Larry, can you say really short barrel. Rally short. :-)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-02-01 12:46
Encouraged by the news! Eddie, my tech has already suggested really short barrel -- I'm dubious, isn't that like making a Bb clarinet into an A clarinet with a really long barrel?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-02-01 12:53
Larry, trying to achieve High Pitch (A-455 or so) with a short barrel on a standard low-pitch Bb clarinet will NOT work. Been there, tried that, did not get the T-shirt........HP Bb is slightly above B-natural on an A-440 instrument, so it's actually a bit worse than trying to take a Bb to an A with a really long barrel!
BTW I looked and don't have any HP clarinets in my sizable collection of orphan instruments, sorry about that -- hopefully Steven O. will come up with one.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2013-02-04 13:36
Larry; if you still have had no success in finding a horn I have here a 1903 Conn improved Albert with Pupeschi mechanism Spiegelthaled a couple or three years ago and in good playing order.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-04 13:40
Would using helium/air mixture work?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-02-04 20:54
I have what I believe to be a high pitch Jerome Thibouville Lamy Bb Boehm system. Unfortunately, it is missing the original barrel and has been horrendously butchered by incompetent repair work before I got it, so it's unplayable at the moment to determine what pitch it plays at. It's joints are substantially shorter than an A440 Bb instrument but not as short as a C. It came to me via the UK- not sure how pitch standards compared to here c. latter half of the 19th century, which I think this thing is from. If you want to consider some sort of long term loan in exchange for some restoration of this thing...As I said, the barrel is missing, the upper bore is full of super glue from a botched crack repair, andthe center tenon is ludicrously worn or too small from a botched replacement. Also, there is a crack in the lower joint at the first tone hole/socket area IIRC. The keywork is all there and in reasonable shape and nothing is frozen or rusty looking. I can take some measurements or pics as necessary.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-04 21:25
High Pitch in the UK is documented as being A-452Hz, but with no strobe or electronic tuners at the time to determine that, it could be anything.
How did they measure pitch back then? How could they measure 452Hz or any other pitch (415Hz, 430Hz, 435Hz, 438Hz, 439Hz, 440Hz, etc.) accurately without any of the equipment we use nowadays?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-02-04 23:27
How would I know? I'm just some guy who likes weird old junky clarinets. I was hoping you would know! Upon closer examination, I think this clarinet may not have had a barrel at all originally and the socket part of the top joint has been removed and crudely turned down into tenon? Ack, why!!!!
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-02-05 01:24
I remember tuning forks! Anthony: pursuing another lead right now -- yours sounds maybe a little more ambitious than I have energy for right now!
Thanks everyone for your suggestions/kind offers.
Larry
PS: Anyone in the vicinity of Northfield, Minnesota August 1-4, I hope you attend Vintage Band Festival! http://vintagebandfestival.org/festival/
Post Edited (2013-02-05 01:34)
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-03-04 16:14
Larry, did you ever find a Boehm? I think I know where one is in better shape and I am so very tempted to buy it... The offer still stands on the loan for some resto work. As you noticed, they haven't been played commonly for 80+ years so are somewhat difficult to find.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-03-21 02:38
OK, I bought it-and wow is this thing cool! It's another JTL and some sort of model supreme top of the line. My guess is circa 1890 (the one I mentioned above is around 1880). It has flute style pad cups and the larger pads install like flute pads from what I can tell (I have limited knowledge of flutes). All sockets are metal lined, even the barrel, and the keywork is just gorgeous and incredibly delicate. It came with a wood Buffet mouthpiece as well. I haven't seen anything like before!
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Post Edited (2013-04-11 19:49)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-04-11 23:12
Apart from flutes, I've only seen Louis and early Howarth oboes with this same style screw in resos fitted in the largest pad cups (possibly on some older B&H Imperials and Lorees) - never seen them on clarinets until the Buffet Elite was launched, then later on the Leblanc Opus. Back in mid 1987 I was considering fitting flute style resos to the large pad cups on my B&H 2-20.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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