 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 1958SelmerMarkVI
Date: 2013-01-09 15:09
Attachment: Buffet clar..jpg (128k)
It is a wood Buffet clarinet with the standard logo followed by "made in France" but no model number stamped below (on the upper joint). The serial number is 1083564, which seems REALLY high. Could this be an R13, or is it something else? Buffet used to have a nice feature on their website for looking up this info, but it seems to be disabled now. If anyone knows otherwise please let me know.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-01-09 15:36
I don't see any cut-outs underneath the right hand pinky keys -- all R13's (and higher echelon Buffet's I believe) have them.
I may not be seeing it properly, but I would guess that's an E11.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: dperreno
Date: 2013-01-09 15:45
Maybe it's just the photo, but that bell doesn't look right to me either.
Doug
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-01-09 15:51
I trust the OP that it's wood, but it doesn't look to me that it is. It looks like brushed ABS or whatever Buffet uses on the basic models.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: 1958SelmerMarkVI
Date: 2013-01-09 16:39
Hey everyone, thanks for the quick and insightful responses. To elaborate, this is an instrument that I was considering purchasing and I haven't seen it in person yet. I was told it was wood (I should have specified that) and the pics at first glance do appear to support that, but I must admit, I thought something looked a little off about it as well. Perhaps it is an ABS plastic. My thought was that maybe it was one of the E11's made in Germany, but since my original post the seller has confirmed that it does not have a Germany stamp on the back. I think I might go take a look at it, if for no other reason than that I am really curious now, but unless I get confirmation on the serial number from Buffet (I emailed to inquire about it) I'll probably let this one go. I still welcome any additional info anyone might have. Thanks!
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Author: 1958SelmerMarkVI
Date: 2013-01-09 16:42
To the person who suggested it might be a Chinese copy...are there such literal knockoffs out there. I mean I know there must be copies of Buffet clarinets just like there are lots of copies of Selmer saxophones, but do they actually use the Buffet name illegally? The Selmer sax copies I have seen usually have a similar name (ie. Selman).
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-01-09 17:05
It does look like the B12 copies that I've seen on the auction sites. I agree with dperreno that the bell looks funky. If you cruise ebay from time to time, you'll see a slew of Buffet B12s listed (or Bb12 I should say, as that's how they're listed a lot), except they aren't B12s. You can tell that they look different (and they come with screwdrivers and white gloves, that's usually a clue to run away). Some of the factories will churn out instruments and stamp whatever logo on them they wish.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-01-09 17:52
Well, i think the bell looks funny because the camera lense has distorted the perspective... but what gives it away as a fake to me is that the words "made in france" are too big, on all my buffet clarinets those words are much smaller than "a paris"... d
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-01-09 19:03
You know, I was wondering about the "Made In France" myself. Thanks Donald!
Obviously if you can try it that's the best route, but for me I would have too many red flags to probably bother with.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-01-09 20:07
Since you have the serial number, why not call Buffet in jacksonville and see what they can tell you about the instrument?
Buffet Group USA
14125 Beach Boulevard
FL-32250 Jacksonville - United States
Telephone :
904 821 0234
marketing-usa@buffet-group.com
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2013-01-09 20:31
The last time I called Buffet in Jacksonville they were not very helpful at all. Seems they are more interested in selling new instruments.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-01-09 21:35
That's a counterfeit instrument. "APARIS" usually has a distinctive blank between "A" and "PARIS". The "made in France" is way too prominent. The shape of the key cups is wrong. The body is brushed plastic. The bell shape screams far east.
The only things missing are the white gloves...
--
Ben
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-01-10 05:48
There is no visible logo on the RH bottom section as on my R13s. The logos on this instrument seem too large.
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2013-01-10 12:38
The Bell looks especially like a cheap imitation.
The logo is very large, lower than normal and the material appears to be brushed ABS. I'm also missing to logo on the lower joint.
The case also seems not an original Buffet Crampon case.....
I would stay far away from this one... perhaps it has a Chinese manual?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-01-10 14:52
The math on that serial number supports everyone's uneasiness about this instrument. The most recent numbers in the Buffet R-13 listings for the "Equipment" section of this (Klarinet) site date back to 1997. Assuming the clarinet wasn't literally made yesterday (or this month), let's use 2012 as the most recent possible manufacturing date if the clarinet is more or less brand new (and it looks it; those corks are certainly unused) and say those 1997 numbers are from 15 years before the number on the clarinet in question.
Those 1997 serial numbers only go up to 439,774.
1,082,564 minus 439,774 equals 643,790.
So, if the number is legitimate and the clarinet was made as recently as 2012, Buffet would have made 643,790 R13s between 1997 and 2012.
Okay, let's compare how many R13s Buffet made (by official count) during the previous 15-year period, from 1982 to 1997.
439,774 minus 234,695 equals 205,079. Buffet made 205,079 R13 clarinets between 1982 and 1997.
For the number on the clarinet in question to be legitimate and to apply to an R13, Buffet would have had to more than triple its output of R13s between the two most recent 15-year periods. I don't say it's impossible, but I think it's unlikely.
For all the good reasons other people have given, I wouldn't buy this instrument anyway, fwiw. Someone asked,
>To the person who suggested it might be a Chinese copy...are there such literal knockoffs out there. I mean I know there must be copies of Buffet clarinets just like there are lots of copies of Selmer saxophones, but do they actually use the Buffet name illegally? The Selmer sax copies I have seen usually have a similar name (ie. Selman).>
Yes, those similar names, clearly meant to deceive, are common. I've seen
Selman and Selner, among others. The most common deceptive names for cheap fake Buffets seem to be Baffet, Boffet and Buffat. But as a flea market and "junktiques" cockroach, I've seen outright fakes, too, with the real names of good brands on clearly illegitimate clarinet-shaped objects.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-01-10 19:30
The instrument is clearly nothing like an R13.
For the record the latest verified number from my experience of instruments coming through my workshop was 612xxx on a Tosca bought in 3Q2010 and probably made just a few months earlier.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-01-11 12:34
This is a Chinese counterfeit. I had one of these in my shop last week. It is brushed ABS or possibly hard rubber.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Fred
Date: 2013-10-31 23:38
I just ran across one of these fake R13's in Southeast Texas in like-new condition. Same high serial number; states Made in France; painted logos; weird non-wood material; no model designation beneath the logo; and a no-name (but new-ish) case worth about $15. The clarinet is in a pawn shop for only $699.00!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-01 01:54
The right ring finger sliver key on the R13 has a central tube and two "swoosh" shaped attachments for the finger and the pad. The attachments on the photo are straight and vertical to the central tube.
The R13 bridge key has a straight-out prong on the lower joint and a wide area on the prong from the upper joint. The photo shows the opposite.
As others have noted, the bell shape is not Buffet's.
Every Buffet model other than the R13 has the model name stamped on it. Therefore, it can't be anything but an R13,and the key shapes rule that out.
Therefore, it's fake, and a pretty clumsy one, too.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2013-11-01 23:31
I have seen far better knock-offs than that here in Seoul. Some of them are almost impossible to pick out till you play them.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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