 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-12-25 21:09
The difference in German silver keys from maker to maker is really remarkable. Last week I buffed a set of 1946 Buffet German silver keys and today I buffed a set of 1941 Conn 444N keys and the finish on the Conn keys is superior to the Buffet. I was just curious why.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-25 21:31
It depends on the nickel content as to how hard the alloy is. The alloy varies from maker to maker - some nickel silver being really soft and yellow (almost like brass) and some resembling stainless steel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-12-25 21:38
The Conn 444N keys are very hard and have a chrome like shine and the Buffet are more yellow.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-25 21:45
Yamaha also use cupronickel for flute bodies and keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2012-12-26 10:44
It's not just between makers - it varies with time. Buffet's German silver seems to have suffered a long-term decline in shine. I'm restoring an 1880 vintage specimen at the moment, and you'd swear the keys were silver plated if it wasn't clear that they're so worn that any plating would have been broken through in places. 1936 keys were also pretty nice - but after WW2 they seem to have changed the recipe to something that tarnishes much faster. You can buff it to a nice silvery shine, but it goes yellow in a matter of months. Pity they changed, and I wonder why - possibly to make the keys harder to bend?
This trend seems to have continued after plating became the norm. The manufacturers claim that they still use nickel silver for the keys, but when the plating wears through you see a horrible colour - whereas with older plated instruments the metal underneath is silvery enough that holes in the plating aren't so obvious.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-26 11:23
I've worked on older clarinets with maillechort alloy keys. It seems quite robust and takes a good shine after buffing. Don't see it today. I used to have an old Albert with brass keywork. I think it was by Hawkes, but I'm not sure.
Tony F.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-12-26 12:42
I just finished restoring an unbranded Oehler-system clarinet which, guessing from the country marking "Czecho-Slovakia" (hyphenated just like that) is probably from 1918-20; it has nickel-silver keywork of a really excellent quality; nice and sturdy, didn't take much effort to clean and polish, and looks an awful lot like silver once shined. Whereas, just prior to this overhaul I did a 1950-ish Conn-branded Malerne bass clarinet, which had the aforementioned yellowish nickel-silver alloy that took forever to clean and once done still didn't look that good (plus it's very easy stuff to bend).
There is a quite a difference between alloys.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-12-26 14:02
David Speigelthal wrote,
> ...just prior to this overhaul I did a 1950-ish Conn-branded Malerne bass clarinet, which had the aforementioned yellowish nickel-silver alloy that took forever to clean and once done still didn't look that good (plus it's very easy stuff to bend).
>
>There is a quite a difference between alloys.>
Yes. And your report is fascinating because it means that apparently the alloys can differ greatly even for clarinets from the same decade and the same brand. My 1957 Conn Director has silvery alloy keys that polish up to a bright shine. They look beautiful on the inside as well as the outside. I know they look beautiful on the inside because, when I was in high school, one of them broke (the right-hand 5th finger one for clarion C and chalumeau low F) during normal playing. My dad bought me that clarinet new, so I know it was never abused. The keys are amazingly brittle. The man who forged me a new key out of brass said he'd seen broken Conn smelter keys before and had learned the hard way never to try to bend them.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-12-26 14:38
Lelia, please note that my "Conn" bass clarinet was not made by Conn by rather by Robert Malerne in Paris, so there's no reason to expect the keywork to use the same alloy as your (presumably) U.S.-made Conn Director clarinet.
Conn originally made their own alto and bass clarinets in the US until (I think) right around or just after WWII, at which point they outsourced those instruments to Malerne who seem to have pumped out thousands of them (in wood and hard rubber versions) for a couple of decades (under their own name as well as brands such as Conn, King/Marigaux, Linton, York, Lyon & Healy, Olds, Evette-Schaeffer, etc. etc.). The earlier bespoke Conn instruments were a bit better design and certainly much more nicely built, but presumably were too expensive to sell at a profit for student/school use and were not quite good enough to compete with the professional Selmer, Buffet and Leblanc altos and basses at the time.
Anyway, I hate cast keywork, regardless of who made it! The intentional, artistic bending of certain keys is a vital process in regulating clarinets, so having brittle cast keywork eliminates one of the technician's 'tools of the trade' --- plus as noted, once broken the cast keys are unrepairable.
Post Edited (2012-12-26 14:40)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-26 19:48
As the majority of companies use die cast keys nowadays (and Buffet do), I suppose the alloy is much softer in order for it to flow into the moulds better.
German and Italian makers do like the use of single piece cast keys - if you have a look at Richard Keilwert clarinets and Borgani saxes (and I presume Orsi clarinets), you'll see even the pad cups are cast as single units along with the cup arms so they will have an uneven finish compared to machined parts. This explains why the key arms vary in thickness from one key to another.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-12-27 11:52
David, thanks for the information. I didn't know Malerne of Paris made the Conn basses in the 1950s. You're right that my Conn Director (a grenadilla step-up model for students) was made in the USA.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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