 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-17 16:45
in their childs private lessons?
i would assume that getting the child to the lesson on time would be the parent or guardians job. I would assume that making prompt payment is as well.
are parents responsible to make sure the child brings books/music to the lesson
are parents responsible if their child practices
what are some other things that parents are responsible for and some things they are NOT responsible for....?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-12-17 17:52
Parents who pay for lessons and arrange their schedules to have their kids attend lessons faithfully (which are the two responsibilities parents carry independent of the child's effort) certainly have a vested interest in the child's success, toward which the lessons are aimed. A parent who takes his or her child's success seriously will provide a level of support and encouragement that seems appropriate for that child.
Parents can try to encourage the child to allot practice time and to organize his lesson materials to have them at the lesson, but ultimately even a well-meaning, supportive parent can't and shouldn't be expected to enforce these things as disciplinary issues. As the teacher I'd prefer to deal with motivation myself and not have the issues connected with lessons become another source of conflict at home. Parents and children fight about enough other things that they don't need another flash point added to their lives, and I want the control to be able to keep the experience positive.
Children need opportunities to develop responsibility for their own behavior. Music lessons are a perfect opportunity. So my advice is that for younger (non-driving) students you consider the parents responsible for only what you began your post with - payment, scheduling and transportation. If they can provide any positive support at home, so much the better, as long as it doesn't turn negative and conflict-laden. For older kids who drive themselves to lessons, you really need to let the student take full responsibility. The child is at that point operating independently. The parent should be contacted when a major decision needs to be made, but the lesson-to-lesson issues of practice, preparation, bringing music and usable reeds, etc. as a practical matter exist between you and the student. Your ability to motivate and the student's response to that motivation are all that really matter.
Karl
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-17 18:15
thank you Karl
as a new clarinet teacher, i am dealing with things I never expected and im not sure how to handle things.
my students grandfather brings him to his lesson. The student is 11. Student has a recital on the 22nd. I left a month to prepare a simple christmas song (God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman).
First week I have student pick the song he wants from a choice of about 6. We begin to work on it.
second week student is 30 minutes late for his 45 minute lesson. I spend 15 minutes going over 8th notes. I give him a binder with protectors to put his recital music in as i see they are get crumpled in his bag (even tho he has a folder). I also give him a better cleaning swab.
third week student is 20 minutes late for lesson. He opens case and no swab is in there. I ask if its still in his bag. he says he never took it out. I asked if he practiced. "umm - a little" .....i remind him to clean out the clarinet every time he plays it. I start with a scale warm up. student is having trouble playing middle B and C and following directions. I realize I am spending too much time on this and move to his recital song. The binder is not in the bag. I ask him where it is. He doesnt know and wants to ask his grandfather. I felt like he was old enough to bring back his music - especially if he had practiced it. how do you forget what was given for homework (which is written and told the parent/grandparent) Since I have the music I tell him he must find the binder but he can use my music. He then tells me he never got a chance to look at all the pieces and never played something so hard and he doesnt want to do that one but someone else already had the one he wanted. I said, "Student - you had first choice. you could had picked any one you wanted to. AND you can play the same one as someone else." We try to pick another song (Good King Wencelslas) I try to get him to sight read - he is fidgeting, holding clarinet incorrectly, i notice his shoes are on the wrong feet. i tell him and he switches them. He did not want to play Good King Wenceslas. Lesson is coming to an end. He finally chooses an 8 line simpler version of it. Lesson is over.
Fourth week coming this thursday - one lesson to work on this song.
there are so many things going on here - Besides playing clarinet - im not sure what to do.
what issues do I address? who is responsible (in this case) for his practice, for making sure the music comes back to the lesson. for getting to lesson on time?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-12-17 20:16
There's certainly a lot going on here. There are a few indications that there may be some significant disfunctionality at home, although it's impossible to be sure without knowing more about the family.
Have you ever met the mother? Does she work when the lessons are scheduled or is there another reason why the grandfather always brings the student? The facts that they seem consistently late and that the kid's shoes are on backwards (unusual at 11) suggests that the scene before leaving for the lesson is a little rushed and frenetic. You can't know that for sure, of course. Does the grandfather seem harried or upset about being late?
The student sounds like a child who is afraid of failure and is trying to avoid it by working his way out of having to play in the recital. This may or may not be a pattern elsewhere - avoiding failure by not attempting to accomplish anything is a pattern you see frequently in children - even older than this one.
Here are some thoughts. What follows may turn out to be a little long-winded, so I apologize in advance.
1. Whatever is going on at home can't become your problem - you have no hope of fixing it. So you need to focus on working with the child when you can - which is mostly at the lesson.
2. There may be an underlying behavioral problem like ADHD that, likewise, you can't really deal with in a short time, although there are strategies you can use over the longer haul to improve the response you get from him. But first, you need to do the best you can to ensure there *is* a long haul.
3. Start by talking to the grandfather. No complaining about the lateness or making demands that they be more punctual. Mention that you've noticed they're having trouble getting to the lessons on time and ask if the lesson time is convenient or if another time would be easier. Frame it in a positive way that offers to be helpful. Don't put the grandfather on the defensive.
4. Yes, cleaning the clarinet is important for the instrument to function at its best, but it isn't this student's most pressing need right now. Making the swab even a minor issue is likely to add friction to a relationship that already seems as though it has become mildly confrontational, at least from his direction. He's resisting most of what you're trying to get him to do. If that's the case, back off of anything but the essentials for now.
5. I'm not sure what you mean by "middle B and C" in the scale warmup. If you mean long B and C (B4 and C5), if they aren't yet established, use a lower scale - F, G or even Bb - that doesn't go over the break. And be careful not to spend too much time at this stage on scales of any kind. "Warmup" isn't so much a reason for scales at this level as it is later when the other material is harder. Right now, it's only a matter of establishing a routine. Use the C scale (or a descending G scale from G5 down over the break) to have him practice B and C. Using them in a descending scale is often much easier for young students that approaching them from below. When they become more established, try going up.
6. As to choice of song to play, at this point, unless you want to let him out of the recital entirely (which should probably be a distant last choice unless it becomes a matter of having him quit entirely), you need to find a way for him to perform something he's relatively confident about. He needs to hear how proud you would be to hear him play at the recital and how pleased his grandfather would be (you might include his mother in this and see what reaction you get). Tell him the good points of his playing that everyone will enjoy (don't lie - find something he genuinely does well *for his stage of development*) - even if he makes a mistake somewhere in the song. You haven't really talked about whether he's comfortable in the clarion register or not, but if B and C are issues, he probably isn't secure enough up there to play anything using those notes in performance. Does the original song go over the break? Does Wenceslas? The fidgeting is a possible sign of ADHD or of avoidance behavior (fear of failure) or a combination of both.
7. See if you can get him to tell you what he thinks is really hard about the song. If you get a specific response (You may have to rephrase the question a few different ways to coax it out of him. Don't try to force it - he'll just clam up.), see if you can rewrite the problem out - down an octave, substitute a different note if it's a coordination issue - be creative and make it seem sincerely helpful and cooperative ("does this help?"), not condescending ("since you can't seem to do what it says, try this - it's easier"). At this point, the goal is to make it possible for him to perform successfully and feel at least OK about it, no matter what you have to do to make it possible. Remove as many roadblocks (short of playing for him at the recital) as you can.
8. "I asked if he practiced. 'umm - a little.'" I'm afraid this is typical of kids in general. First of all, most kids don't like to practice. Second, most, even if they do practice a lot, would rather say they haven't practiced in case the lesson performance doesn't go well - it's less risky than claiming lots of practice and having the result at the lesson be poor anyway - even for a secure kid, that's more of a failure than blaming problems on lack of practice.
9. "I felt like he was old enough to bring back his music - especially if he had practiced it." Well, for a kid who is generally scattered and disorganized, one has little to with the other. And "old enough for ..." is a judgement that is useful only in deciding what to try to get a student to do. If he fails at doing it, then it doesn't matter if he's "old enough." Something is preventing him from doing whatever it is he's old enough for successfully, and you just have to identify and deal with whatever that something is. You can't discount the possibility that there is someone at home putting all of his things away for him because he doesn't do it himself. Some things are out of an 11 year-old's control and if he practices in a common area of his home, cleaning up after himself may be one of those.
10. Gradually, over time, you may be able to learn enough from listening to casual remarks and getting what you can from innocent (without an agenda) conversation from both the student and the grandfather (or parent if one ever shows up) to start to understand the home background a little better. But, meanwhile, the best you can do is try to build trust between you and the student and get him to relax about playing, about learning new things, about occasionally taking small risks (which may be a big step for him). That's really the only practical road toward getting him to come with you down a road of progress.
11. Finally, always keep in mind (you may have to remind yourself out loud sometime when there is no student around) that learning takes place as a change in the student. Teaching doesn't ensure learning. All a teacher can do is create an environment where the student feels comfortable enough to try something new, and then present new skills as opportunities for growth. The teacher's responsibility is to provide the structure and the instruction, but above all, to create the safety zone in which the student doesn't feel threatened by failure but can work to overcome failure in different ways until success results. There is nothing, at least in this society where physical violence against students is heavily frowned on, that a teacher can do to force learning, and the child has a nearly unlimited repertoire of ways to resist it. You can really only succeed if you can develop trust. Your frustration when things aren't going easily doesn't really matter. The student's frustration can become an insurmountable roadblock.
Best of luck,
Karl
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-12-17 20:58
Karl, you beat me to it. I was going to make many of the points you made.
As teachers, we like to think that we can fix everything. There are some situations that just can't be fixed no matter how hard we try.
Janet, it's sounds like you're describing a few students I've had! You mentioned a recital. Does he really have to perform on this recital? If not, let him forget it. Instead of telling him to practice x, y, and z for his next lesson, ask him how much time he has. If he only has the time to work on one or two short selections, leave it at that. He might feel overwhelmed, and you can help by making things simple and relaxed.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-17 21:55
thank you so much for taking the time to tell me your thoughts and ideas. as always i appreciate it. and its always helpful.
to answer some of your questions
grandfather does not seem upset when late ....he said he got lost in time
student WANTS to be in the recital. He does not have to. I suggested he may not want to this time if he didnt feel ready and i thought he was going to cry.
student is home schooled by mom. he was bullied in public school.
he wants to learn B and C (long) has only played up to A. nothing over the break. He also has difficulty identifying the notes from week to week.
I met Mom at lesson one, and at first recital. she works during lesson time. But I suspect students spends a lot of time at grandfathers house.
I do suspect ADD ......this is something I wondered if I should ask about or mention to parent/grandfather?
I feel more confident that I will be able to be patient with him this week and make him feel comfortable and positive about his song. I think although I dont feel as though i am going to fast, perhaps i am for 'him'. maybe i should slow down and let him have more successes instead of difficulty. I enjoy this boy and I dont want him to quit. Especially if its becuz im not being a good teacher. Always, always room for improvement.
thanks so much!
Jan
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-12-17 22:25
These answers color some things a little differently, especially Mom's involvement with his home schooling (if she *is* involved. Or is she keeping him home and relying on the grandfather (her father or the paternal father? - is the child's father at home or is it a single-parent home with Mom working all day?) to oversee the home studies?)
It's good that being in the recital is *his* wish. But, depending on the home schooling situation, he may have been taught first and foremost that only things that are easy are worth doing. Having been bullied at school reinforces both the idea that there is a behavioral deficit (ADD or similar) going on, which may have irritated the other kids at school, and a fear of trying anything "too hard," since at home things can be individualized much more than they can be in a brick-and-mortar school. He needs to be coaxed gradually into trusting you not to be judgmental and into trusting himself to actually be capable of learning new concepts and (especially) skills.
Let him lead you for now to what he feels safe trying to do in the recital. It's a process, and the most important thing you can have going for both of you is his willingness to explore new possibilities into the future.
Once the pressure of the recital is past, add challenges carefully and slowly in increments he can handle - his success or failure rate will well you how much he can do.
One more point, about the lesson length - I've generally not scheduled elementary school kids for hour-long lessons - my opinion, of course. There have been exceptions, to be sure, if I have known the child beforehand or have seen in the first few lessons that he could handle more time. Some pre-teens have trouble concentrating through 30 minutes. If you've already committed to a 60 minute lesson, you may be stuck unless you can afford to cut the lesson fee down in order to offer the out of a shorter lesson. Half an hour may be all this boy can manage without getting restless. A shorter lesson means your time management skills will get more of a workout. You really need then to zoom in on what's essential.
Karl
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2012-12-18 03:20
Is there any chance your student is suffering from depression or something similar? That could possibly explain the distractedness, memory issues, and (potential) sadness about not playing the recital (purely speculating, but if he is depressed or otherwise not feeling good about himself, it's possible that when you said he could back out, it could've been taken wrong as that he shouldn't play because he couldn't/shouldn't/whatever). I endured bullying in school and spent a lot of time in depressive states, so I know what I'm talking about in that regard. I have some socialization impairments and was picked on mercilessly. Even though I love to play, when I was really down, the last thing I wanted to do was look at my clarinet, much less play it. I'm also a perfectionist, but I realize that there is no room for that being a musician; I'm somewhat better with that in my playing.
This wasn't meant to be a me-me-me post; just trying to offer some insight into the situation. It can't hurt to casually ask how he's doing. Who knows, if he trusts you, he may open up if there is in fact a problem.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2012-12-18 07:47
I think the parents do have a role to play in encouraging better organisation, but maybe that's just my European socialism kicking in...
Some children respond better to direct instruction than others. Lots of children don't like being told what to do, so you have to find ways to increase their motivation to learn. Often deadlines/recitals don't
achieve that. Consider getting them to compose and
experiment.
Post Edited (2012-12-18 08:50)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-18 09:05
Parents are responsible for the upkeep of their child's clarinet. Yesterday a very respected player and teacher brought a late '60s/early '70s B&H Regent to me - he said it was a battle to actually get hold of the instrument itself.
They bought the clarinet very cheap some six or so years back and by the looks of it, it had never been serviced in its entire life. So there were more pads that were torn than not, key corks missing, bad regulation, noisy keywork, compressed and worn tenon corks, etc. which is what you'd expect for a clarinet around forty years or so old.
The child has been playing on this clarinet in its increasingly deteriorating condition for the entire time. The parents refuse to understand that clarinets like all mechanical things do need regular servicing.
I was asked what the minimum cost would be to get it into a playable condition - the minimum it needed was a major service going on to a full rebuild. So the teacher left a message with the player who relayed it to her parents. He got a text back saying 'that's too much, we've got other more important things to spend that kind of money on right now' - so the parents really have their priorities right when it comes to their child's musical education!
As I've ranted on before, the parents aren't exactly strapped for cash so can easily afford to lay out the cost of a full service to get this clarinet playable so their child will at least begin to enjoy playing it rather than struggling with an instrument that's near on unplayable.
As they bought it cheap, they aren't willing to spend any more money on it than they have done so far. A clarinet is a clarinet - what can go wrong? They didn't understand that for anyone to see what was wrong with it, they needed the instrument there with them to actually see what condition it's in as there are multitudes of things that can cause a clarinet to be unplayable.
Deflated by the parents attitude, the teacher took it back with him. There was nothing either of us could do to convince the parents that this clarinet is only going to thwart their child's progress in the poor condition it's currently in and it will only get worse over time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-18 11:39
Thank you everyone so much!
student - studying to be teachers .... hopefully the questions and issues I post here will help you in your future endeavors (as well as mine). You can be a great Clarinet teacher - but there are sooo many issues other than clarinet related ones that you will run into.
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Author: morbius
Date: 2012-12-18 14:28
I guess I'm sort of old school about this. But I think human psychology plays a big role in this: basically, people (young students included) value what they invest themselves in. If you can get a student to practice something, and he can see real progress and success, that is a great foundation to build on. Conversely, if a student will not practice, or only practice half hearted, it is doubtful that he/she will succeed. So, I always had the parent sit in on the first lesson. I made it clear that the lesson fee did not guarantee that I would listen to them...that evidence of practice time at home was also necessary. I have on occasion, asked a student to pack up after 5 minutes because of no practice. I also made it clear on the first lesson that that would be my policy. You don't build a reputation on bad students, and good students are critical as most of my clients came by word of mouth recommendations.
I also feel an ethical obligation to the music teaching profession. We are not nor should we be musical babysitters. We are one generation passing on to the next the art we love. As such, we should respect the profession, just as we revere the teachers we have had.
John Dorch
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-12-19 13:59
I think this discussion is an excellent one, but here's a possible complication. Many of the parents who home-school their children do so for religious reasons. It's beyond difficult to quiz a kid about religion, and normally I'd consider it extremely inappropriate to do so, but I'm wondering about it because these problems have surfaced before a Christmas recital and because one specific problem is the choice of a Christmas song.
Is it possible that this child is non-Christian? Is he a member of a minority religion who may have been bullied in public school not because there was anything wrong with him but because of bigotry in a school where nerly everyone belongs to a mainstream Christian denomination? Could he be Jewish or Muslim? Might he belong to a Christian sect with strict ideas about what's appropriate for Christmas? Some fundamentalist sects strongly object to the Santa Claus aspect of the holiday. The boy may want to belong and participate with his peers in whatever they do, but feel terribly conflicted about the subject matter.
He's reached an age where he may disagree with his parents' teachings or he may just feel alienated and confused. Is it possible he doesn't dare tell his parents that he's practicing Christmas music? Maybe he wants to make a statement by keeping his secret until he plays this recital in front of them, but he also dreads the consequences.
If any of these conditions apply, then maybe his grandfather is taking the blame for the lateness when it's really the child who's dwaddling, out of anxiety. Or maybe the grandfather's caught in the middle -- aware of a conflict and wanting to protect the kid while not getting into a blow-up with the parents.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2012-12-19 14:35
these have been problems all along
child has played christmas music before .... wants to play what he did last time "cuz i already know it"
he is home schooled due to bullying
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2012-12-19 19:10
This child sounds similar to my daughter, who at age 11 could not keep track of assignments and always wore mis-matched socks. She had ADD and a specific learning disabily, which is why I took her out of school in 4th grade for half a year and home-schooled her--bullying, plus teachers who didn't understand that she simply thought and understood concepts differently.
Today, she is graduating from high school one year early, and applying to top conservatories in music. But when she was younger, I always made sure that she had her music book when she went to her lesson. I would ask her teachers what the assignments were, since remembering assignments was much harder for her than actually playing the music. The best teachers were those that had some understanding regarding the different ways in which students learn, and didn't require her to learn concepts in a certain order.
It would be helpful if the parents would give you a briefing on what challenges their child faces.
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