 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2012-12-11 03:19
The top sliver key gives you right hand control of C#/G#; this configuration is the "articulated C#/G# key." Under the Carl Fischer classification system of the early 1960's the articulated c#/g# key and the third right-hand spatula key, the clarinet would not have been labelled R13. Rather, it would have been labelled at least R14 or R15. The basic professional model, with 17 keys and 6 rings, was labelled R13. Buffet experts on this board will, no doubt, be able to give you greater insight on the classification and when Buffet ceased production of the fuller gradation of models.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-11 08:07
The upper 'sliver' key for RH finger 2 is for a C-Db, G-Ab and altissimo E-F trill. Far easier and less tiring to trill with RH2 than trilling with the LH pinkie.
I find it odd that Buffet clarinets with articulated G# try to retain the small diameter and high positioned C#/G# tonehole, whereas most other makers position it much lower and have a larger diameter tonehole.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-11 10:27
I don't know how Buffet's model numbering works as I'm not a Buffet follower.
I have got a '60s Buffet full Boehm in my collection, but I prefer Selmers. The Buffet is the middle one in this photo: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/01.jpg
The Selmer to the right of it is now my main clarinet (after undergoing a complete rebuild).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-11 10:34)
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-12-11 11:19
I am still trying to find out if this is an R13 or pre R13. It has every feature of the R13 except for the trill guide.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-11 13:08
My Buffet full Boehm's serial number is F690** and has the machined trill key guide. As there are no other markings I assume it's an R13, although it may be an R something else.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-12-11 13:54
The latest non-R13 serial number I've found is 48707 (1954). The earliest R13 serial number I've found is 48829 (1955).
There was no official Buffet model name prior to the introduction of the R13. However, the U.S. distributor used its own model numbers indicating the number of keys. The 1941 U.S. catalog shows:
R-10½ – Albert system, 15 keys, 4 rings, 4 rollers
R-13 – 17 keys, 6 rings
R-13½ – 18 keys, 6 rings (articulated C#/G#)
R-14 – 17 keys, 7 rings (forked Eb/Bb)
R-14½ – 18 keys, 7 rings (articulated C#/G# and forked Eb/Bb)
R-16 – 19 keys, 7 rings (full Boehm w/out low Eb)
R-16¾ (a/k/a R-16A) – 20 keys, 7 rings (full Boehm)
The intersection of the right ring finger sliver touch with the key tube is hidden in the photo Clarineteer supplied. The touch looks like the Nike Swoosh and is soldered along almost the whole length of the tube. The pad connector has the same shape. See http://www.google.com/imgres?start=361&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=vIv22li9tgGl7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.saxquest.com/popPhotoViewer.asp%3FProdCode%3D259479BuffetRCPrestige%26AtImage%3D6%26productname%3DExtremely%2BNice%2BPro%2BModel%2BBuffet%2BRC%2BPrestige%2BBb%2BClarinet%252C%2B259479%26PhotoNum%3D29%26view%3Dall&docid=G4aB-QvP1oFGMM&imgurl=http://www.saxquest.com/images/prod/259479BuffetRCPrestige6.jpg&w=1200&h=900&ei=SEfHULKfKaSo0AGYuYGgDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=766&vpy=471&dur=23485&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=148&ty=85&sig=100536462633854649195&page=8&tbnh=141&tbnw=176&ndsp=54&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:400,i:37&biw=1693&bih=908.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-11 14:18
Pro Buffet soprano clarinets generally had the cut-outs under the RH pinky keys to make clearance for them and the crow's foot as the touchpieces are mounted very close to the body. Selmers also had this for a while but they raised the heights of the RH pinky touches so they no longer need to make the cut-outs. The only French-built Buffet soprano clarinets that don't have cut-outs are the E13 and C12.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-12-11 14:22
Thanks Chris. Ken does that appear to be an R16 3/4 ( R13 ) to you. Mr V Krass in a previous post stated that in all his years he has never seen a pre R13 with the separate G#/A throat keys.
Post Edited (2012-12-11 14:25)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-12-11 18:27
In 1961, I bought a Buffet full Boehm without the low Eb. It has been so long ago, and so short of documentation that I can't be sure about the model designation. I thought that it was an R16-1/2, but Ken Shaw's data makes it an R16.
It had a F-prefixed serial number, which (I think) meant that it was intended to tune to A-442. It had fabulous dexterity --quick, light keywork and acoustic responsiveness. It sped up my playing a whole lot compared to the plastic student instrument it replaced.
It languished for decades with very little use when life distractions shouldered my playing out of my life.
Out of the box, later, it turned out to have horrible intonation --it did not play well with others.
Now, 10-years after replacing it, I'm still trying to finger Eb5 as TRXOXG#|OOO, and still reach for the upper RH sliver key and use the articulated G#/C#. "Bad" habits are hard to break.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-12-12 00:36
Everything indicates that this is indeed a very early R16 3/4 (R13) including the way it plays. thanks for everyones input. I really appreciate it.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-12-12 00:53
Clarineteer -
What is the serial number? From the photos the horn appears to be one of the prototypes/experimental models made while Carré was working on the final version.
The pre-R13 little finger keys for low E and F# arch higher than on the R13 and have an extended tip pointing down.
Pre-R13s and early R13s had flat springs for the throat A and low F# keys.
Your photo "Buffet sliver key 002.jpg" seems to show the left little finger keys mounted on a single rod, like the top two trill keys. I'm sure that the R13 had them mounted separately.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-12-12 11:59
Clarineteer -
S/N 47500 is just before the introduction of the R13, which occurred at around 48800. You undoubtedly have a transitional instrument. I've seen a few prototypes, but they have no serial numbers, so yours is probably the run of the mill.
Is there any undercutting of the tone holes? And, by the way, how does it play?
Chris - Thanks. I stand corrected.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Swede
Date: 2012-12-22 18:25
Chris P says:
" The only French-built Buffet soprano clarinets that don't have cut-outs are the E13 and C12."
What about the Buffet RC?, a band member have one from around -80 with no cutout on the lower joint. Keys equal to my Buffet C12.
Post Edited (2012-12-22 18:29)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-22 19:30
I've got a set of RCs in right now (33xxxx A and 35xxxx Bb) and both of them have the cut-outs under the RH touches.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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