 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mirapaigew
Date: 2012-11-11 23:57
Attachment: image.jpg (1927k)
Attachment: image.jpg (1932k)
I have searched all over for info on my vintage Bb clarinet. This was my instrument I used all throughout middle, high school, and college. It was given to me by my mom. My little sister in law is now playing clarinet and we were searching the internet out of curiosity for info on my clarinet.
My mom says the clarinet was purchased in 1979 for around $3,000.
The serial number is K34917. The stamp on the clarinet says Evette & Schaeffer modele Buffet Crampon Paris France.
I can't find any info on this particular serial number. I am curious if this instrument is similar to the R13, is an intermediate clarinet, or what. Any information would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2012-11-12 18:51
I hope it wasn't 3000 AMERICAN dollars! If so, someone got taken for a ride. Back in 1979, even a new Buffet R13 (the pro model) would not have cost that much. The Evette & Schaeffer clarinets were below that level, and even to this day, the equivalent models cost nowhere near that much!
THe Evette and Schaeffer is roughly equivalent to a modern E12 or E13. Even today, these do not sell for $3000 at reputable dealers in the US.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2012-11-12 18:51)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-11-13 13:12
I agree about the price. The going rate at flea markets is under $100. I paid $40 for a Bb that sounds quite a lot like yours, with the same type of logo, at Black Angus up in Pennsylvania, in 2000. Caveat: 2000 is awhile ago and this clarinet was in unplayable and seriously roached-out condition, in need of a full overhaul with thorough cleaning (case was disgusting), all pads, all corks and most of the springs. Mine is high-pitch, i.e. from the early 20th century. The serial number starts with a K. Without the K, the number would date it to 1928, but that's confusing, since according to serial number lists, the "K" numbers end with 999. So I don't really know what I've got, but I know I wouldn't have paid much more than I did pay, given the nasty condition.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2012-11-13 19:51
A picture of the entire upper joint would help us determine exactly which iteration of the Evette & Schaeffer you've got.
At the very least, this is an intermediate-level clarinet.
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Author: annev
Date: 2012-11-14 02:55
Here is a link that might interest you:
http://www.clarinetpages.net/vintage-odd-brands/evette-schaeffer
At the bottom of the page is a serial number chart, as well as a link to the website that the chart was copied from. The serial number on your clarinet would place it around 1974 or 1975. The Evette and Schaeffer was a high-end intermediate model, which eventually became the Buffet E13. Some of these K-series Evette and Schaeffer clarinets are really very nice instruments.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-11-14 03:25
All the above! Student model clarinet and way over priced if it really cost $3000. That would even be too much for the list price. If I recall properly the Evette was their basic student model, then came the Evette Schaeffer and at some point the Master Model, said to be R13 rejects because of a small defect in the wood, before they came out with the numbering system. I began on an Evetter Schaeffer in the early 50s when I began playing. It seems to me it used to say "sponsored by Buffet" but I'm not positive about that.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2012-11-14 05:34
Ed, if your clarinet said "Sponsored by Buffet," it was an Evette, not an Evette & Schaeffer. Also, except for a very few instruments that did not have the K- (or any other, for that matter) prefix, the E&S "Master Model" was not a rejected R13. Rather, according to Buffet, it was a production E&S that performed particularly well on final testing.
The E&S was made in Buffet's main factory and evolved into the E13. The E12 actually evolved from the Evette Master Model and was never made in Buffet's main Paris factory. Of course, a good E12 may still play every bit as well as well as an E13.
Miranda, extrapolating from the serial number list here:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/HowOld/Buffet.html
I would estimate your instrument was made in 1975. At the time your instrument was made, as annev notes, it was a high-end intermediate model, one level below the R13. I don't know exactly how much a new E&S would have cost in 1979 but it was probably no more than $500 - $600. I base this estimate on the fact that in 1981, Weiner Music (which usually had good prices even back then) was selling R13 Eb clarinets for around $850 - $950. R13 Bbs were probably $100 - $200 less than the Eb at that time and E&S clarinets were probably $100 - $200 less than R13s.
Lelia, I can't tell from your post what you have/had. If the logo on your clarinet is the same as Miranda's and your clarinet has a K-serial number, you are looking at the wrong list. The list you describe is a list for Buffet's professional models. You need the list for "E13s." If your serial number is not on that list, note that the list is incomplete. There are single-digit K-prefix E&S clarinets. Vytas Krass had one with a serial number of K179. I don't remember what he concluded the date of manufacture to be but I think it was in the 1930s. AFAIK, there are no high-pitch E&S clarinets -- at least not made by Buffet. The going rate at flea markets may be under $100 for an E&S but the last time I checked on eBay, the going rate there for an E&S in used, needs work condition was in the $200-$250 range.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-11-14 14:31
Jack, I have no quarrel with your comments about price and I agree that the price I paid for my E-S was low (for anything), even for 12 years ago. It needed to be low because of the condition. According to the notes I took at the time, most of the pads had fallen out and were loose in the case. The backs of the reeds had turned black. The stench from the case would have gagged a goat. No hope of selling that clarinet "as is" to a mom or a dad looking for a nice used instrument for Junior. Yet there was nothing really wrong with it: no cracks, no chips, no keys bent or missing, etc..
I'm sorry if I'm confusing the issue of dates here, but unfortunately the currently-available serial number lists don't help me identify the date of my Evette-Schaeffer. (The hard rubber mouthpiece is marked "Evette & Schaeffer" and "France.") The E-13 list doesn't include any numbers starting with K; and on the ES-13 list, my serial number (without the K) would date to the period 1969-1973. That's impossible. This clarinet pre-dates WWII, as indicated by the HP mark (for "high pitch") and by a lot of other evidence, such as the old Keratol-covered contour case, which (from the pattern of staining that precisely matched the layout of the clarinet) appears to be the original. The old brands of reeds, cork grease and other stuff left in the case also indicated pre-WWII. When I brought this clarinet home, right away I cleaned it and the case and dumped the rotted pads, corks, swab, etc., so they wouldn't stink up my house, but otherwise I haven't worked on this instrument. Therefore I don't know how it plays, but it seems well-made.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-11-14 16:10
I've been under the impression that clarinets from the Buffet factory with a K prefix were tuned to A =442. I had a c.a. 1960 Buffet R16-1/2 (full Boehm less the low Eb) with a K-prefix serial number. It came with a heavy, glazed paper gauge that was supposed to let you be sure that the chamber of the mouthpiece was properly sized to assure good tuning.
Bob Phillips
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Author: dream62
Date: 2012-11-14 16:35
It's the case the serial K is tuned to 442
Is this an issue ?
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Author: mirapaigew
Date: 2012-11-15 03:07
I was mistaken with the price. I'm not sure why I had $3,000 in my head, but I was certain that is what my mother said. I asked her and she said that I may have misunderstood, but the clarinet was bought for around $1,000. Perhaps they were still ripped off, I'm not sure. I wasn't worried about the cost. I was only interested in finding out about the level of the instrument, since my research on the serial got me nowhere.
Thank you to everyone for your help!
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Author: mirapaigew
Date: 2012-11-15 03:16
It's almost impossible to make anything out on this one.
Post Edited (2012-11-15 03:20)
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Author: mirapaigew
Date: 2012-11-15 03:24
The instrument has been in a closet (in a case) since 2005, so it probably needs a bit of cleaning. Please look over that.
Post Edited (2012-11-15 03:26)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2012-11-15 16:28
Enjoy...
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=350206&t=350198
Also, your situation is EXTREMELY similar to my E&S K-series situation. Mine was passed through the family to me where I used it through middle school, high school, and continue to use it.
Mine is a VERY fine example of a professional clarinet. I know it's not technically a professional clarinet, but I had it custom voiced/tuned, and it's everything I could ask for in a clarinet. It plays better than almost every other professional clarinet I've ever play tested.
And I suspect it was nowhere NEAR $3000 in 1979. For that level clarinet, you're looking more towards $1000 new. I actually found an old receipt in mine (from 1970) with a price of $300. Don't know if my great uncle bought it new for that price, but it makes me think the #3000 is just WAY off.
General consensus from what I've seen on this board is it was essentially the highest level "student" clarinet before moving into the entry level "professional" clarinets. But that doesn't mean it's not great. My student clarinet has beat out most pro models I've tested, so I have no incentive whatsoever to ever purchase another.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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