 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-03-09 03:14
Hi All,
I am going to repad my metal clarinet with kid pads and was looking for some tips. I have done many bladder pads but never kid pads.
Thanks,
jv
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-03-09 05:23
Much the same procedure. Select the right size and depth. Stick in pad and let dry. Level checking with some sort of feeler gauge. Wet pad and clamp for about 12 hours to seat. Recheck level and readjust and repeat seating procedure and play test. It is also advisable to check the tone holes to make sure they are level and level them if necessary procedure is the same as levelling sax or flute tone holes be careful.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-03-09 14:38
I never wet and clamp any clarinet pads. I never need to because I install them in correct alignment so they don't leak. This often involves slight correction of key cup alignment, for which I have developed some special tools.
Kid pads are FAR more accommodating of any irregularities of tone holes and key cup alignment. You'll find it easy. Just make sure your pads are not too thick. Some instruments are quite unsuitable for leather pads because the pads are the diameter of the inside of the kew cup whereas bladder pads are usually about a millimeter larger. Some tone holes NEED this extra diameter for secure coverage. Any pad which is seating very close to its edge is unreliable.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-03-09 16:27
Hi, Joe !
I've never installed kid pads but I'm considering using them on a couple of Albert metal horns - for no particular reason :|
Well, no, let me retract that... I became interested in doing kid pads when I got hold of a plastic Albert 'C' pitched horn. Like so many things I have pending, I just haven't gotten 'a round tuit' yet : The horn has (white, though quite soiled) kid pads now, most of them pretty well shot. Some, the stuffings coming out. Half of them are not too bad though. The horn actually plays; enough that I know it's a standard (A-440) pitch, and probably not very old.
Many of the pads are still soft, cushiony -for lack of a better description- and look/feel as though they would almost seat themselves if they were installed just close to level with the tone hole. Like Gordon, I try to get bladder pads as close as I can to sealing the first time. You may need to adjust the cups a bit to do this but it makes everything go so much better down the line. I admit to a little 'cheating' though; I still find it easier to dampen some of the larger pads a bit and lightly clamping (with panty-hose remnants) to make a really good seal. But, I'm workin' on it :]
I don't know whether (Ferree's) kid pads are different thicknesses. It's worth looking into (other sources) though. The pads on the horn I have seem to be fairly thick and somewhat 'puffy'. As Gordon says, they appear to be much more accomodating. If you want to use thinner pads you may need to consider non-resonator sax pads. I have, anyway. I imagine you might get a little 'brighter' response with them. But, I have no personal experience with that aspect yet.
Gordon - do you know whether kid pads are produced in different thicknesses?
Best wishes on your project, Joe, and - keep us posted ?
- ron b -
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-03-09 16:37
Meant to mention... keep in mind the cushion properties of kid pads and Gordon's advice to fit them more to the inside of the cup to allow for that. Although, on a metal horn that might not be a concern. I don't know... just thought it might be worth keeping in mind.
- ron b -
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-03-09 17:30
Thanks guys... Hi Ron, I have gotten the pads from Feree's and have custom ordered all of the cup sizes and medium thickness pads. I have been doing all of my padding with clear shellac. Any comments as to different adhesives anyone?
Best,
jv
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-03-09 18:48
Joe  )
I like white shellac, French cement (clear shellac with powdered chalk?) for pads. I think that's because it's what my first mentor used. Monkey see, etc... It makes for a nice clean job even when I'm less than super meticulous <:o Others, and I may be revising my thinking here, like the clear stuff - no additives - suggesting it may be stronger bonding than the pigmented kind. There've been previous posts here and at EarlyClarinet that indicate clear shellac holds up better under severe temp changes. At least one local tech in this western (inland coastal) area uses clear or amber when durability is desired... but, we don't *have* severe conditions here :o My two cents worth is that, as long as you make it a nice clean job, the one you prefer is 'correct' :])
If I decide to use tan pads on the metal horn I mentioned prevously, I'll use amber shellac. If white kid - white shellac.
Somewhere I read that glue gun adhesive can be used satisfactorily. I haven't tried it.
Are the medium thick pads you ordered kid skin? I haven't recently checked Ferree's catalog for kid pads. I think they're listed as bassoon pads?.
- ron b -
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-03-09 19:38
Ron,
I am using the white kid pads. White kid is what was originally on the clarinet. (At least the pads are very old and I am assuming they are original.) I have a whole stick of the amber shellac but haven't used it yet. The clear has worked so well for me I hate fix it if ... I know the local repair tech uses hot glue for his repairs and has been repairing instruments for 40 years! I just don't do enough repairs to experiment. Feree's has the white kid pads listed for clarinet but you have to specify all dimensions. I was told to use a leather register key pad as well... If you use leather use all leather. Have you heard this before? Is there a rule of thumb?
Ciao for now,
jv
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-03-09 21:53
Joe;
I know... Ferree's sells pads by the dozen - so, you're ahead, money wise, if you order only the sizes you need. They're not cheap. I'd assume too, as you do, that the pads on your horn are original just because you don't see them much on 'modern' clarinets and leather holds up for a long time. Doesn't mean they are but... good possibility (?).
I don't know, in my relatively limited experience, that there's any difference between clear or amber shellac. Might be but I haven't noticed. I use either one to stick on key cork(s).
I've always used cork for register keys. "...use leather, use 'all' leather" ? Makes sense but, no, I've never heard that phrase. By observation I've imitated what other horn fixers do and still use cork for register keys. For one thing, you can shape cork and sometimes remedy a stuffy or buzzy Bb that way. I mean, you can taper cork - cone shaped - toward the register hole and that often does it. I suppose it's assumed, or maybe proven, that leather is a good R-key pad because it holds up to breath moisture better than fish skin... but you can't change its shape. I don't know of any rule of thumb on this one. I wouldn't use a regular pad unless you have no other choice. Then I'd consider it temporary.
Well, there's no substitute for old fashioned experience. That's where I fall short. If the local repair tech in your neighborhood uses hot melt glue I'm convinced it's okay. I have time to experiment. I will, too. Have a school horn there's no hurry on... -yes!- :]) I can fool around with it.
Nice talkin' to ya, Joe -
- ron b -
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-03-11 04:37
Prestini/ Hermes make pads in different thicknesses. For example you can order thick, medium or thin from 8mm to at least 20mm with half sizes.
Gordon- I check the level and seal etc. etc. before I clamp the pads. I was taught this way and so have stuck to it. I dont of course wet or clamp bladder or artificial pads! Are you in Auckland?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-03-11 05:07
Ron, I wouldn't consider sax pads. They're too thick. I agree re the cork for register keys.
Mark; Yes, I'm in Auckland.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-03-12 06:21
Thanks for the tip, Gordon. The thought of sax pads came to mind, I suppose, because of the association of metal clarinet with metal (soprano) sax. Anyway, thanks for bringing me back to reality :]]] before I squandered my money.
I don't do saxes (yet).
- ron b -
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