 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Claireinet
Date: 2012-09-24 21:49
Often the advice is given out that one should only enter the music profession if they can not see themselves doing anything else, and indeed every year there are more aspiring clarinetists embarking on their futures and inquiring as to the best course of action in any of a wide variety of situations (eg. where to go to school, what degree to get, scholarship comparisons.. ).
Many times a thread will start up like so: (Any resemblance to actual posts is coincidental..)
Q: "What are good schools to apply to?"
Response A: "Go to such and such school";
Response B: "Don't do music, or at least get a double degree"
Response C: "Do what you love, don't listen to cynics"
Response D: "It's not cynicism it's reality"
*Further bickering will sometimes ensue.
Certainly anyone posting such a question on the boards is welcome to, and we all aim to be as helpful as possible. Really everything boils down to the individual; which school is best or if music is the right path for them -it all goes back to the "Only-if's" that only that person can know for sure.
The aim of this thread is to serve as a reference point for consideration by those currently dealing with such life situations and decisions - by having a collection of insights (wisdom, regrets) posted by anyone who has gained them through living and having previously gone through these various experiences. (Or, hey, I guess if you feel you came across some insight that saved you trouble to begin with, feel free to post as well./ You don't regret not doing music.)
To put it shortly -- I'd like this to be a place where we can all put those (mostly) unpopular (probably because they were not directly asked for), bits of wisdom that .. as just mentioned.. are not always quite welcomely received when they show up elsewhere.
This is not meant as a deterrent, but as a way to help people explore themselves and their future goals/possibilities more closely, and hopefully help them make the choices that are best for them.
For example: (These are just examples but feel free to answer them if you think they apply.)
-Did you truly believe that music was *the* "one" thing you could see yourself doing only to wake up one morning after investing very much time, energy, and money in that pursuit to realize that you no longer feel the same way and want out? Even feeling this way if you still believe that if you want to you could stitch together/continue to stitch together a music/teaching career? Perhaps you were even warned about music as a career and were so passionate about it that you brushed it off with no qualms.
What caused the change in perspective, do you think if you were your past self again-only knowing what you knew then- that there is any way you could have or would have made a different decision? The one you maybe wish you had made at your current point in time?
Do you wish you had never taken your path to begin with? If you could go back and tell yourself to do something different, would you? ("Trust me, dude. I'm future you.")
What did you do about it, or did you decide to stay on the music path even though you no longer enjoy it only because you are already so far down that road?
Do you feel your choice to pursue music as a profession made sense for you and worked out-- but would no longer advise others to follow that path because of things that have changed?
Did you double major and are happy about it/currently use that degree instead of music, or did you *not* double major and regret it/wish you could go back for something else?
Do you feel you would enjoy music more if you had not gone into music, or that you enjoy it more after leaving the profession? Is your life fuller because music is not your living and your hobby?
If you switched paths, at what point did you do so (where you still relatively young, or not?)? Was it very difficult, and how did these difficulties shape what you decided to do?
Did you debate between schools and end up feeling you made the wrong choice? (regardless of if you ended up pursuing music as a profession) Why was it the wrong choice?
Did you choose a more expensive school and feel that the less expensive would have been the better route after the fact?
If you were going to choose a teacher or school all over again what would you change in your process of selection?
I'd also like to link to and borrow from this older posting, "What's your day job? ". It is quite dated so we may not want to revive it but it does also provide some good food for thought. The OP, WashingtonClarinetist, came up with a well thought out line of questions.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=277012&t=276716
If anyone wanted to address those questions some of them sort of follow the same vein and could be fitting. I'll post them for easy reference here:
1. What's your day job? (i.e. what do you do for a living)
2. Do you have any degrees in music?
2a. If you have degrees in music but are not currently making your living through music, how far did you go before deciding to travel a different path?
2b. If you answered 2a, what made you decide to give up music as a career?
3. If you do not make your living through music, do you find you have enough time/energy/interest to continue playing in your free time?
3a. Are you in any ensembles?
4. If you do make your living through music, how long did it take you to find the job you have?
5. Whether you continued in music or didn't, do you have any regrets? (feel free to ignore this question if it's too personal)
If anyone has any other ideas, links, or whatnot to add to this, please feel free. Also, I suppose if we want respond in the form of pasting a question and then answering-it would be easier to read if we bold the question.
Again, this is not meant to be a "negative" post though it will surely contain some negative experiences and not-so-much-positive-anymore stances on some things.
*If you are considering anything music and read this, just contemplate what you see and make your own decision.
*If you are what some might term- disgruntled, cynical, cranky, jaded, or whatever else.. post away... Please!
*Let's try not have things turn mean-spirited (personal attacks etc..).
/start half-serious sarcasm
And to all *you people* that think music is all roses and the world is wonderful... go away and start your own post about it!
(But also link to this post.. and let me know and I will reciprocally link) :P
/end half-serious sarcasm
(That's acceptable because I'm half sarcastic, right?)
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Author: Steve L
Date: 2012-09-25 16:36
You cannot make a 'wrong choice'. You only have an experience as a result of that choice.
I would say that if music was the 'right' path for an individual then that individual would just get on with it. They would just know. Asking career advice on a forum probably wouldn't feature in their plans. Maybe the individuals who are undecided on their career path come on here in order that they can get that 'reality check'.
My story for what its worth is that when I was at school my plan was that I was to become a music teacher. I played clarinet and piano, loved music and a career in music seemed to be the obvious choice.
One day whilst walking home from school I had a bit of a 'moment' and by the time I got home I made a decision and announced to my parents that I was joining the Police Force.
I subsequently sold my pair of clarinets in order to finance the purchase of a motorbike. I spent the next 2 years in the Police Cadets and the subsequent 30 years in the regular Force and didn't play any clarinet during that time.
I have no regrets and cannot conceive of what life would have been like as a music teacher.
Picked up the clarinet again about 5 years ago, don't know where its going to lead me, so I'll just enjoy trying to improve until hopefully I'll have another 'moment'.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-09-25 18:05
I'm reminded somehow of an old saying pilots like to use: "It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground".
I feel that way about music. Had I chosen to go into music as a profession, I might not be nearly as well off as I am doing music on the side (speaking not just financially, but in many other ways too). But who really knows?
Life is too short to live with regrets. Make the best hand you can with the cards you've been dealt, and move on.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-09-25 18:42
My passions have come and gone. I'd recommend for people to never assume that there is only ONE thing they could ever love doing. Right now, I've found a hidden passion for bartending, and I hate computers (once my passion) with a... erm... passion.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2012-09-25 19:27
Post Edited (2012-09-25 19:28) Wrong thread , sorry.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2012-09-25 19:29)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-09-26 08:58
I agree with many of you on here who believe that as amateurs we can have the best of both worlds: Another job/profession/life choice and the kick and release one can get from choosing what and when to play as the mood takes us.
My husband is a music teacher and performer and he doesn't have the same choice as me to play just when he wants to play. I think he is a bit jealous sometimes;-). Another plus for me is that he is a very good accompanist so I can play things which are technically very difficult without having to play on my own. He pretends to moan sometimes but I know he enjoys the challenge really! ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
My husband is 3 years older than me and went off to study Music. When he got back I didn't want to go. I was being pushed to audition for the Royal Colleges and was having one of those phases where I thought nothing I did was good enough.
So I studied to become a nurse near to where we both lived and I loved it and it made me realise that music wasn't the be all and end all I had thought. I later went on to study several degrees at university and now work as a University Lecturer in Critical Care Nursing and I don't regret any of it for a millisecond! (.... Even the 'old ball and chain' who I am still with! .)
Post Edited (2012-09-26 09:41)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-09-26 12:50
We're not always given perfect choices in this life, careerwise, and anyone who wants to revise the turns they took might not be looking at the potential car wrecks they've already unwittingly escaped. To put it another way, if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, the bullets are also invisible.
Sidney Bechet took himself in and out of the music business for decades, before realizing that he'd never shake it--and from then he figured the best thing was to play so long as he had breath.
"Maybe I should have stayed in Cleveland," Artie Shaw once mused. "I was successful--had a good band job, was making money, in love with a girl I wanted to marry. I was nineteen and had to make a decision. I decided I had to follow the road. Maybe I'd be happy there. Or maybe I'd have been miserable wondering what I could have done. I guess I might have been miserable anywhere."
There's a lot of wisdom in that observation. Career, schooling, and any number of things aren't going to solve the problems of our lives. There are successful people, in a monetary sense, well educated, who aren't happy or content, or at peace.
I've cautioned many people against pursuing a musical career...except for one type: the type who is a born musician and can't help it. "Can you do anything else?" I've asked kids who wanted to go to college for music. And I meant that not primarily in a talent sense (all of them could have technically done something else). I meant it in a psychological sense. Some of us, rain or shine, foolish or wise, are musicians: there's no helping it.We'd go crazy out of it, and wouldn't have been ourselves. I can't tell you the number of musicians I know who are talented enough to do other things...who say "I'd never let my kids go into this"...but who never leave themselves.
A theory teacher of mine in High School once told me, after seeing a couple of tunes I'd written, "Kid, you're so talented, you should marry money." Not bad advice.
As a younger man, I was able to work in performance, until heart problems made it impossible. Then I wrote, mostly about music. As soon as my heart problem was fixed, despite a ten year lay-off, I almost immediately went back to playing, and now I can't shake it, no matter how bad the career options (and family obligations that have joyfully sprung up during my ten year hiatus). If it was all taken away from me again, I'd have to find my way in the dark again and it wouldn't be fun: I am deeply grateful to be able to play again, without which I was like a bird without a song. Like Bechet, I figure the best thing is to play while there's breath. I'm not passionate about it: I AM it, in a sense, even when I'm bored.
Music is an important, undervalued thing in our society. And I mean undervalued in a specific sense. There are things I've learned through music that nothing else would have taught me--through the music itself, I mean--not the experiences surrounding it. I need it.
Music, in a professional sense, is generally a bum deal. Some make it, some don't. One teacher of mine said, wisely, "I've known players better than you who didn't have jobs; players worse than you who do." Sometimes there's no accounting for it all. If you go into it, realize that you might hit it big, but realize too that you might wind up with something more like a vow of poverty. And if you do hit the poverty slot on the roulette wheel, check out St Francis. You might find what you're looking for.
A wise priest was once asked "how does one know they're doing the right thing in life?" He answered, "Doing the right thing brings peace. It doesn't solve all your troubles, but if brings peace--that's how you know you're on the right path, however rocky." Glad I heard his homily that day: it's made my life a lot easier.
So, find who you are and be it. Do what brings you peace, and what you can share with others. Then, when there are other troubles (as there certainly will be in this life) you can face them head on for what they are--instead of thinking your career or education might have solved them.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: reprise
Date: 2012-09-26 19:11
First, a relevant threads in the "Keepers" section that I posted several years ago:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=1315&t=1315
And another that was recommended to me:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=208&t=208
Also, a great article by Augusten Burroughs entitled, "How to Ditch a Dream," with thought-provoking musings on this topic:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201206/two-minute-memoir-how-ditch-dream
A few other thoughts - -I've found that regret has a way of fluctuating over time. I've never had any regret about my undergraduate music school experience -- despite challenges, I made life-long friends and got a great education in addition to a performance degree.
I did, for a long time, regret my choices about going to grad school in performance. My teacher (between undergrad and grad) had taken out loans for his grad degree, and though it was a gamble, it paid off -- and he had a solid career. I chose to take the same financial gamble. In my case, medical problems led to further financial strain, which led to me having to drop out before finishing.
For many years -- saddled with debt and low-paying jobs that made it impossible to make headway paying it back -- I thought about what I'd have done differently. I imagined that I would have taken another year off and re-auditioned with hopes of getting better financial packages. I imagined that I would've stayed at my undergrad for a 5th year to complete a double-degree, which might have made me more marketable in other fields. I regretted the decision to take out loans every time I missed a payment or applied for another forbearance. (Note -- I didn't regret trying to pursue the dream, only the manner in which I did so.)
Sometimes life changes and regrets fade. Years later, I found a partner who was more financially stable and who encouraged & helped me to go back to school. I have a stable well-paying job now and the loans -- almost paid off -- rarely cross my mind. As I get more active as an amateur musician, I am grateful for the training I did receive.
Now, if I feel sad about the past, it's about things I didn't have much control over. I wish I'd had familial or financial resources to draw upon. I wish I hadn't developed medical stuff that made it impossible to continue. I wish I'd been able to come up with some other career about which I felt such passion & drive as I did about music. But I believe that I would feel far more regret if I'd never tried.
I should also add that before I went off to undergrad, I had the unequivocal support of highly qualified teachers & conductors. Some of them questioned whether I would be happy as an orchestral musician (based on their own experiences or those of colleagues), but none of them had doubt that I had the talent & potential to carve out a career for myself as a musician if I continued working at the same level.
I think that it's useful for anyone considering a career in performance to have the opportunity to play in front of people who really know the current state of the field and what the current competition looks like. Get informed opinions about your current skill level and what you would still need to do.
Also bear this in mind: As a social scientist, I now know that there is a pervasive and faulty belief in our society that anyone can succeed if they just work hard enough. In reality, many factors beyond talent and skill are at play in whether or not someone becomes "successful." All art forms have a glut of sufficiently talented & skilled individuals, for whom there are simply not enough jobs.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-09-27 14:54
I cannot imagine the difficulty of pursuing a degree in classical music. Anyone who succeeds in it is a hero, a genius, a saint. And it seems to me the greatest difficulty would be keeping your love of music alive. I think that's what would perish first.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-09-27 17:41
Pursuing a music degree wouldn't make a person a hero or saint in my book nowadays, but rather a fool or a dreamer. On the other hand, making a living wage playing clarinet AFTER leaving school --- THAT person is to be greatly admired!
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Author: SchlockRod
Date: 2012-10-03 16:55
My regret is not pursuing a music career, but doing so half-heartedly and ending up just another palookah (albeit with a day job that has allowed me to raise a family).
My advice to all the young people who THINK they want to do "nothing else" is:
a) Be SURE
b) Then, if you really are SURE, this means you will forego (video games, TV, movies, friends/gilfriends/boyfriends who aren't musicians that can help you develop, family events, sports, drinking, parties, summer vacation, spring break, etc/etc) in order to focus single-mindedly and doggedly efficiently on what you are SURE of and truly LOVE, RIGHT?
I coulda been a contender, with a music career that would have paid the bills.
You can too, but it's way more competitive now than it was 40 years ago...
And NOTE: You don't necessarily need a music degree, if your passion truly is MUSIC, and does not involve teaching in a college, public school, or university, or playing orchestral music with the (insert major cosmopolitan world city name here) Philharmonic, etc.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-10-03 21:49
Funny, hanging out with non-musicians furthered my thinking in ways that enriched my musical world.
Some of them were great golfers that kicked my butt around the course (giving me enough strokes so I didn't lose ALL my dough.... and I won occasionally too.)
Some were Physics majors that made me feel incomprehensively moronic; yet they still made time for picking up chicks at the bar and could drink me under a table.
Others were mechanics that let me tinker on their vintage American muscle-cars, driving them at times, that didn't care a bit about classical music.
Still others were athletes/muscle-heads that kicked my butt into shape. (I was a track "star" in my own mind. A 5:30 mile and 52 second 400m weren't world-class, but still respectable.)
Lord knows I "wasted" time with girlfriends....
I have several quite Highly successful friends whose significant others are non-musicians. I even had a long-term failed relationship with a (future) lawyer...
Dedication and practice are important, but putting blinders on thinking that any non-musician friends, or spring-break trips, are self defeating may be missing a large portion of the larger picture. We learn a lot about ourselves, and thus our art, from the largest scope of experience we expose ourselves to.
Expanding knowledge, be it from reading Joyce or learning how to properly use a
bait-casting fishing reel can only help matters. Or maybe it was just me.
-Jason
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