 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-04-30 00:31
Hello,
I've seen a few wooden bass clarinet bells around and was wondering what the general impression of them is. Anyone play with one and what differences it brings good and bad?
I know Rossi makes one but does any other company?
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2009-04-30 03:45
My colleague and friend Bohdan Hilash has been playing on a wooden bell on his bass that I believe was custom made by Morrie Backun for him a couple of years ago. He sounds marvelous on it, but he sounded great on the original metal Selmer bell as well, as it's always the player producing the sound, not the gear.
AB
AB
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Author: CEC
Date: 2009-04-30 05:19
I recall Howard Klug mentioning once that the tone is a affected a bit, but the main improvement is with the response. He uses a Rossi. I'm pretty sure that Michael Lowenstern uses a Backun.
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Author: jack
Date: 2009-05-01 04:57
Yeah, both Backun and Rossi makem, but the size of the Rossi bell and the scarcity of grenadilla in the required size severely limits their production. The Backun bell is smaller and if you want one, they will make it for you. It's special order only as you send them your bell and they (beautifully) craft a screw-on wood bell that is then interchangeable with the original. The difference in the sound is not minor and it is all to the good.
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Author: clarinetwoodcarver
Date: 2009-05-01 13:01
I play a Buffet Prestige low C bass with a cocobolo bell made by Morrie Backun. I continually receive compliments on the sound of the instrument, and I feel that the response is excellent with the wooden bell. As stated in an earlier post, he crafts the bell so that you have the option to either screw on the wooden or metal bell. I also had him do his tuning/voicing work on the instrument.
Be aware that the wooden bell will not fit in the traditional case, I use a horn mute bag attached to the handle of my case.
I have had the opportunity to hear Howard Klug's bell made by Rossi. It sounds marvelous. It is considerably more heavy (in weight) than the Backun bell.
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Author: SamKaestner
Date: 2009-05-01 13:44
I play a cocobolo bell made by Morrie Backun. I think it does great things to the sound. It takes away a good bit of the inherent buzz that happens when you play a loud long B and other notes around there. I think it adds more depth to the low register. Mine is the extra large model, so if I cover the vent hole on the curve of my Buffet bell with the Backun bell attached, I can get a low B. That's pretty geeky, but still fun. The biggest difference I feel is the entire instrument is just more resonant and active. The resistance is smoothed out, so when playing the early solos in Daphnis, the B sounds just like the notes above and below it. I have also had others tell me that the instrument seems louder with the Backun bell. I'm personally not so sure about that one.
Sam Kaestner
West Point Band Clarinetist
www.samkaestner.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-01 14:31
Should I put a wooden bell on my metal Kohlert bass clarinet, or would that cause some sort of matter/anti-matter reaction that would destroy the universe?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-05-01 15:31
I was going to get a Backun bell several years ago but he needed me to send him my original bell when he got a piece of wood large enough to make it and fit it for me. Since I don't have a second instruments I could not do that so I had the neck and bell double gold plated instead, 22K plate over one coat of silver plate. It looks and sounds great. I really can't say it sounds better than before because I loved the sound of my old Selmer then, and I love it now. I had tried the Backun bell and did like it though. I also didn't like the idea of having to carry and extra item for the bell because I need to carry my double case so many times as well. I think the gold plate was a good compromise, at least for me. You can read my article about it on my website in the bass clarinet page. You can also see it on my welcome page picture. Personally I feel any player that sounds great with a wood bell, or gold plate, or standard bell would sound just as great anyway. Equipment makes it easier to achieve what the player is looking for but it's ultimately the player that sounds great, not the instrument, but it all helps. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: William
Date: 2009-05-01 15:40
Personally, I can't wait until someone comes up with wooden sax necks and bells. I can almost feel the G.A.S. building............
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-01 16:11
Wood sax necks have been around for a while:
http://www.paraschos.gr/
There are a few other makers of these as well. Get your wallet out!
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-05-01 19:13
The wooden sax necks are cool. I clicked it hoping to find a wooden bass clarinet neck as well...All well!
On another note....
anyone have experience with rosewood bass clarinets? I came across a selmer series 9 once and thought it was a beautiful. Sadly when I was in the market for one, no one has them anymore. Just a few older selmers around.
I'm returning to my Artie Shaw CD I found at the library today.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-05-02 14:37
"Wood sax necks have been around for a while"
Thanks for the good/bad news, DS. The good: finally, something really new and cool for me to look forward to trying besides ANOTHER MOUTHPIECE; The bad: I may have to end my happy retirement to be able to afford the g.a.s. I feel com'n on........
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-02 15:03
Please don't shoot the messenger, William! I'm already under death threat from the Buffet Mafia for some ill-advised past remarks I wrote about that marque...................
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Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2010-11-14 04:26
My turn to hijack the post...
Has anyone tried one of the wood ligatures on that website David posted?
here it is again: http://www.paraschos.gr/pwsite/ligatureonlyone.htm
Look interesting, but rather flimsy...
RJS
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-11-14 05:13
>> Look interesting, but rather flimsy... <<
The Paraschos wood necks and ligatures are reinforced with something, I don't remember what, which make them much stronger e.g. help prevent the necks from cracking etc.
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Author: Alex Eich
Date: 2010-11-16 09:09
I remember once seeing a bass clarinet by a german company (Schenk and Shnegle???) with a solid wood bell but for the life of me cannot find it again. Found it when I asked Google about german clarinet makers. Feel free to add to this and correct me..
Beautiful horn which was very weird in many ways. Oh, and pricey. Very. Ho hum :P
Alex
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-11-16 09:17
Schwenk und Seggelke- their Bass clarinet has a hybrid fingering- a combination of German and Boehm.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-17 13:45
Of course, you could have an all-wooden saxophone by betting a tarogato!
Klarnetisto
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Author: Bill Patry
Date: 2010-11-19 21:03
I just received yesterday a Schwenk & Segglke bass, with a Rosewood bell. You can also get cocobollo. It has Reform Boehm fingering, not really a hybrid. For Low C to D#,you have to hold down the low E and then operate one of four square thumb keys. It has a left hand G#/D#. The craftsmanship is amazing; the key action is so smooth. It is much lighter than my Selmer Privilege Low C but has just as rich a tone.
Seconding my friend Sam Kaestner's remarks, I too have a Backun bell for my Selmer Privilege Low C and I love it. The bell on the Schwenk & Seggelke is wider than Morrie's, but the size of Morrie's wooden bells has changed over times. Sam's is much larger than mine, for example. Morrie also made a wooden bell for my 1969 Fritz Wurlitzer Low C. I think the wooden bells add a lot of depth. As for necks, I don't know about wood, but The Blashaus in Zug Switzerland makes very very good custom necks in different weights and finishes.
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Author: LCL
Date: 2010-11-20 00:40
Had Morrie add a wooden bell to my Leblanc Model 430 Low C over the summer. It is amazing, and I could tell the difference it made in the horn the second I began to play it! Of course he's done some tinkering with the horn too and it has resonators and Morrie's gold plated neck. I use a Pomarico Jazz ** mpc with a Legere #2 and the power this horn has is amazing.
LCL
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-11-20 09:55
Here is what Schwenk und Seggelke say about the fingering system of their bass clarinet....
The little finger touches combine the best of both worlds: German arrangement for the left, Boehm design for the right little finger, resulting in a large choice of fingering and trill alternatives.
... so perhaps "hybrid" is a little too much, but certainly out of the ordinary (and not standard Reform Boehm).
dn
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Author: Bill Patry
Date: 2010-11-20 13:33
Right you are Donald. Here is another out of the ordinary thing, at least for me: for that little right finger: there is no low D right hand key, but there is a low D#key.The arrangement for the right little finger is three keys on the bottom but only two on the top. S&S will custom make it any way you want though, and if I had known there wasn't a low D on the right I would have asked them to make one. That aside, it is an amazing amazing instrument. As I said in the first post, the craftsmanship is superb, and there are many interesting little touches. It is also a bit taller than my Selmer. My 1969 Fritz Wurlitzer is very similar but the Fritz has more of a (German) basset horn sound. The S&S has a bigger sound than that, the low notes quite full, so it is as Jochen told me, it is a cross between the Selmer and the Wurlitzer, maybe even a hybrid in some sense. The bell, which started this thread, is taller and more spread out than Morrie's and is directed out, whereas Morrie's tend to be directed up.
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Author: bph
Date: 2012-09-23 03:17
Actually my wooden Bass Clarinet bell is not a Backun product. It is made by Alan Andrews, a wonderfully talented Bass & ContraBass player and instrument maker based in London.
Both the bell and U-bend are wood. The bell was milled from one solid piece of African Blackwood and is not a laminate of two separate sides like some wooden bass bells currently on the market. It is more resonant as a result but it is indeed heavy.
Because the U-bend was fabricated from wood it was necessary to extend the instrument's tube length to accommodate the resonation holes required for the lowest notes to speak clearly, be in tune, and have good resonation. Although it was not necessary to install keywork on the resonation holes i opted to do so and the instrument now extends to a Low Bb below the usual C.
I am frequently asked about the how and the why of this modification;
my thoughts are that, like many such endeavors, this particular equipment modification has both merits and drawbacks.
On the downside, although i had a superb craftsman fabricating the bell it was my responsibility to source the wood because he simply did not have the time to do so. To mill a bell of this dimension its necessary to have a very large piece of Blackwood and it is rarely is available in such sizes. It took about 3 years to locate the wood. I managed to find several pieces, but in the end only one of them survived the milling process. Also in this category were the necessity to modify my case to accommodate the length of the bell, the necessity to fabricate a heavier-duty endpin, the time for the work to be completed, and the additional weight (about twice the weight of a Backun bell).
When working with a craftsman in this manner the product is specific to the player - you don't just place an order and then have something sent to you later on. Its actually necessary to work with him/her in almost every step of the process. This was particularly crucial for refining the tone-hole placements to match my particular intonation proclivities. Also, the craftsman needs access to your entire instrument for a certain part of the process. Obviously this is not for everyone.
In the Plus column, the instrument now is more in line with what i always imagined it could be. This of course is purely a matter of personal taste and is only applicable to each individual. For myself i can say that i now do indeed perceive a roundness and warmth quite different from its prior state. Certainly this is the case with the bottom six notes, but i also sense it in the corresponding
twelfths. Although i have received many compliments about the tone from both clarinet and non-clarinet-playing colleagues i would not be so bold as to say that there is necessarily a marked difference to every outside listener. Where i do notice a real difference is in recording; listening to recordings where i've used this bell there is far less of a percussive quality to the lower register notes and definitely an improved resonance. Articulation at louder dynamics does not produce the sort of metallic buzz found with the metal bell. I find that it also makes it easier to blend with the low strings in an orchestra. Mostly the advantages have to do with the way i perceive the sound; its now more like the way i want it to be. This may or may not be to the taste of others but for me it was certainly worth it.
- bph
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-09-26 13:49
Any time you change something on a clarinet or bass clarinet it's going to change something for good or bad. It's up to the player to decide if it's a possitive or negative for them. I tried a wooden bell once and like what I heard but I already like what I was hearing with my metal bell. I thought it to clumsy to have to carry one along with my regular clarinets which I have to use so often as a symphony player since the wooden bell will not fit in my case. So it will make a difference, it's up to you to decide if it's worth having one or not. I had my bell, and neck, double gold plated instead and thought that gave me a little inhancement, but as I said before, I liked what I heard before doing that and now I like what I hear since doing it. Was it worth the money, gold only $700 an ounce back then, not $1700 today. Well, I get great compliments on how great it looks. :-) I love it when someone says "your instrument sounds great", I like to say, yea but the player sucks. :-)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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