 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: andrewcsq
Date: 2012-09-17 13:29
Hey all,
I'm a half-decent beginner/intermediate player looking to start playing some clarinet jazz (instead of practicing weber all day ><) and I did some online searching.
There's a whole dizzy array of stuff out there that seems absolutely necessary. Diminished scales and chords, all these modal stuff and chords that seem longer than the notes in the bar they're above!
Anybody can advise me on where to start? I just tried asking my teacher during lesson and he said he's more a classical guy...
Thanks!
Andrew
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-09-17 17:06
Glad to hear you're giving jazz clarinet a shot, Andrew!
First and foremost, live with the music and listen to great players: Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, Edmond Hall, Pete Fountain, Eddie Daniels, Bill Smith are among some of the players I consider essential. Find what era you are drawn to most--even if only initially--and transcribe a couple of ballads, then move on to some faster tunes. Transcribe different players, with different styles, and try to be a good mockingbird: get the various sounds of the horn that the great players get.
After this, there are many ways to go, in terms of approaches to developing scales and patterns. But I'd start with learning off the recordings--making jazz vocabulary your own and starting from the ear.
If you have access to a piano player who can comp chords for you, and is willing to spend time letting you noodle around and figure some things out, I'd recommend doing as much of that as you can.
Keep Swingin'!
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-09-17 21:07
Buy the Band in a Box software for your computer and load the chords from a few of your favorite tunes in it so that you can play along with it. The Aebersold background CDs will be too hard to play with until you are more advanced as the chords they play are very complex and indefinite sounding.
Learn the simple things first like major and minor scales as well as the scale tone sevenths. Forget modal scales and diminished scales for now as they are too complex until you become an advanced player. They are really not necessary to know for a very long time.
The Real Book 1 for Bb instruments will give you enough standard tunes to last a lifetime for only $20 on Amazon.com. Practice a melody and then try playing whole notes, half notes, and quarter notes to the chords in time.
Try to play along with CDs and memorize a few tunes.
Good luck!
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Author: andrewcsq
Date: 2012-09-17 23:16
Thanks so much for all the advice thus far!
I've listened to some of the artists that have been mentioned(Goodman, gotta love Shaw's concerto, even if it's a darn bummer to play, Sidney bechet) and I'm very much drawn to the whole big band era stuff (perhaps slightly less of the Eddie Daniels vibe)
Thankfully I do have a pianist friend who's willing to do some jamming with me (we're aiming to go busking by the end of the year to torture unfortunate souls in town area) but he's primarily a classical player... (a really, really, really good classical player)
I've got the Real Book, are there any recommendations for particular tunes to try? I've been looking at Alice in Wonderland, Black Orpheus, Take the 'A' Train and (all time favorite massacred and butchered song of all time) Take Five.
Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming (:
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Author: kilo
Date: 2012-09-18 11:41
I always recommend the Bb Omnibook of Charlie Parker solos. Transcribed from Eb, you get to use the low register a lot and it will give you a good workout with regard to phrasing and rhythm.
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-09-18 12:30
All good advice so far but there is another way to go and that is working from the chords. Rather than focussing on scales, you might want to start playing the progressions to those tunes that you like moving from arpeggio to arpeggio. In terms of practice, playing guidetones through familiar progressions (blues, rhythm changes) and cadences (ii-V-I) will take you a long way and allow you to develop both your ear for melodic development/improv and your ability to play those chords in jazz rhythms.
That and transcribing (which I am very bad at) will get you a very long way.
As far as the Aebersold book/cd sets go, I really like vol. 3 (the II-V-I set) because the first track allows you to practice your ii-V-Is in all major keys. Add the 'Blues in all keys' set and you have backing tracks that will allow you to really explore the basics of jazz.
When you start to feel comfortable with those sets, the David Baker book on learning tunes (I think it's vol. 76 in the Aebersold series) is good for the use of contrafacts and harmonic formulae. And then you are on your way to jazz harmony in a big way.
I know that is a lot but it's good to have an idea of where to go. Most of all, you need to get those major diatonic scale chords in all keys under your fingers and I find that practising over a drone is good for both intonation and letting me hear the chords as I am practising them.
Good luck.
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Author: andrewcsq
Date: 2012-09-18 13:44
Tony,
I've heard "ii-V-I" progression come up a lot, but I've no idea what it means (beyond that it's 2 minor 5 major and 1 (or root) major chord)
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2012-09-18 13:50
If you have a keyboard handy, sit down and play it. You probably recognise it. And then start to listen for it in tunes. Try listening to a recording of 'How High The Moon', you'll hear it over and over again. It is probably the most common cadence in jazz and is a common substitution for a V chord (V/// = ii/V/).
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-09-19 23:32
As someone who isn't much of a jazz expert, but would like to do more, I found Dan Greenblatt's "The Blues Scales, Essential Tools for Jazz Improvisation"
to be helpful. With Greenblatt's approach, you can do a lot if you master the blues scales in different keys.
http://www.shermusic.com/new/1883217385.shtml
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-09-20 02:45
One would get a lot further learning the Dorian and Myxolydian modes than with the blues scale, but the "art of improvisation" is an aside at times....
I guess I can speak from some experience as I fell into the trap for some period of my life, but too many bang ever-increasingly complex improvisational language into their heads at the expense of never learning how to play a simple melody. Not an improvised melody mind you, but the head itself.
Why do so many fail to acknowledge that many jazz standards are actually songs--- with words!!!!
Listening to great instrumentalists and emulating them is good practice, but it can be limiting in certain ways.
Listening to great singers is done far too little by many, but considering that the voice is not subject to the technical pitfalls we force on ourselves as instrumentalists, just maybe something of merit could be gleaned. Could what some over-zealous young cat is trying to play actually be destroying the natural phrasing of the lyrics?
Check out Joe Williams, Johnny Hartman (2 of my personal favorites), Sinatra, Helen Forrest, Billie Holiday et. al. sheesh even Lou Rawls if these others are too "old-fashioned" for 'ya.
(Hartman singing Lush Life actually makes me believe that rotting my life away in some dive is a great choice. Try playing a simple melody so convincingly on any instrument and making another feel so strongly: that takes a lot more "skill" and grabs my ear far quicker these days than a flashy 5 minute solo demonstrating a musician has studied Lydian Chromatics or Walt Weiskopf in great detail.)
I can sit here and discuss how 'Bird came to be, modal chromatics, the origin of the "Giant Steps" cycle, subbed-out pentatonics and why Slonimsky's encyclopedia is the greatest work of the past century... but it is pointless if it comes at the expense of more "simple/difficult" pursuits.
A case can be made that clarinet jazz has different "norms" than other instruments and their more "modern" path; and it's true to a point.
But on the other hand there is no clarinet jazz, sax jazz etc... just jazz as a genre. And while improvisation is a portion of the genre (just as it exists in ALL music) there are other neglected components.
Andrew, listen to good clarinetists, but not only clarinetists. And there is plenty of time before diminished scales need be worried about. (Though I can "explain" them if you insist on knowing what they are and can limit you to.)
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-09-20 02:49)
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Author: andrewcsq
Date: 2012-09-20 02:58
Thanks for the extensive advise and recommendations Jason. I'll be sure to check those artists out.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2012-09-20 03:54
Great advice Jason!
Sinatra Live at the Sands, Coltrane and Hartmann, and Nancy Wilson and Cannonball were the beginnings of my collection, and they are still the albums that I most often listen to (along with Sonny Rollins Live at the Vanguard).
Andrew,
I would only add that jazz has historically been an aurally transmitted art-form. It would be of great help if you could find a player in your area with which to study. Of course, it would not need to be a clarinetist; in fact, it may be better to avoid clarinetists. At any rate, listening to and playing with a professional will teach you more about phrasing, 8th note swing feel, et cetera than any books you could purchase.
I would also suggest attending as many live performances and jam sessions as possible. If you could become friends with some other players, it could be very beneficial. Abersolds are awful. Playing along with an Abersold feels like attempting to have a conversation with a talk radio program: there is no conversation. It would be immensely more beneficial to make friendly with a pianist or bassist and persuade them to occasionally play some tunes with you.
Also, if you do want to read something. Dave Liebman has some nice articles for free on his website (I particularly like the one on transcription):
http://www.daveliebman.com/educationalarticles.php
Cheers!
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Author: Lorenzo_M
Date: 2012-09-20 05:26
Good advice Jason. I also recommend listening to great vocalists or even just great singers who sing the melody well. It will add something to one's conception of how to play music that a LOT of people right now lack - mainly how to form melodic lines and construct a logical solo based out of simplicity.
The trap that often befalls young improvisers (including me - even now, ha) is that too much is emphasized on music theory and technical connection, but without developing the ear to navigate through the harmony in a "natural" fashion. Though it may seem contrary, technique is much easier to develop than musicianship. This is why you'll go to a jam session filled with technically difficult 20-minute solos on altered blues forms, and not hear a single blues being played.
Anyway, cynicism aside - melody and understanding it is what will separate you from everyone else. I've seen it time and again. This is what the audience listens for...most of them (unless they're made of "musicians") only care that you play the top of the song in a recognizable form, and can 'sing' something through the horn that they identify with. The solo is an extension and development of the statement of the melody...not some separate vehicle to showcase how much theory you know.
So, Jazz singers are good, but any singers are good. If playing standards, even if you don't know the words, at least listen to the original version. A lot of things we play were the pop tunes and show tunes of the day. Aside from that, everyone else's recommendations on specific improvisational methods will probably be sufficient.
As far as specific things, mastering the blues, major, harmonic minor, mixolydian (V7) scales, dorian (ii), bebop, half-diminished, diminished, and "jazz minor" (aka ascending melodic minor) scales in all keys throughout the range of the horn is plenty of material for months and years of study. Triads, inversions, you name it. Though there's TONS more stuff than that, this is enough to help one navigate most standards and bebop tunes. How well you navigate it will depend on your ear though...
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-09-20 16:39
Great stuff guys. I agree with the folks who say listen to the crooners, and particularly like Jason's inclusion of Helen Forrest, who is one of my all time favorites and deserving of much more recognition.
A couple of funny asides to remember, though...
Helen Forrest said that all of her phrasing and musicality came from one influence: Artie Shaw's playing. She tried to sing the way Shaw played.
Likewise, Frank Sinatra patterned his phrasing off of Tommy Dorsey's trombone playing (Woody Herman once said that if you wanted to know who Sinatra was trying to be--stage presence, sarcasm, musical phrasing everything--it was patterned off of his idol, Tommy Dorsey).
So definitely check out Helen and Frank...but don't forget to listen to Shaw playing "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" and Tommy play "I'm Gettin' Sentimental Over You". You just can't phrase better than them.
PS. brycon's comment about Aebersold is one of the shrewdest I've read. I always wondered why those discs never did me any good...and the best jazz education of my life was a High School band director who comped chords for me every day for four years during study hall....as Buddy DeFranco said somewhere, it's the High School Band directors, more than anyone else, who have kept anything of jazz alive in this country.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-09-20 19:36
Hi,
Jason and Eric and all .......... wow thanks for introducing me to Helen Forrest. I of course knew of Artie Shaw but what a fantastic partnership. I could listen to them for ever! Geeeeeeeeeeeeee I'm in lurvve..................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsditGy9jd8
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Author: Bill G
Date: 2012-09-21 03:15
Essentials: Learn to play swing eighth notes; they are not played equally within one beat, but approximately as if they were quarter note then an eighth note within a triplet one beat.
Accept as fact that jazz cannot be notated exactly as conventional in classical music; the emphasis is on flexibilty as determined by the player's feeling; note values are flexible. Pitch is flexible.
If you don't feel it, you can't play it. It is said that a person asked an early jazz musician "What is jazz" and he replied "If you have to ask, you'll never know".
Listen! Listen! Listen!
Shed your inhibitions and your classical teaching; and play, play. play.
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Author: ned
Date: 2012-09-21 04:48
Eric writes: ''
And while I'm at it, I'd better mention Peggy Lee. If you've never heard her version of "Where or When" with Benny Goodman prepare to have you're heart ripped out....(in a good way)....
************************************************
And.......if you like that, check out Kay Starr (wow, what timing, and you'll need TWO hearts!) plus, one of my favourites, Barney Bigard, who takes a far too brief solo unfortunately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VICKgX0jvCA
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-09-21 10:10
I am really starting to love all this stuff! When I was younger I used to look on it as if it was almost like a different instrument and thought I would never be able to get anywhere near jazz. Also I think my teacher would have hit me over the head with a music stand if I had dared even to try it.![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif) I look now and think how much I would love to have a go at some of those pieces. I know I will never be Artie or Pete ;-) but I can have fun with it and just enjoy!
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-09-21 12:25
ned,
I'm gonna need another heart surgery!!! Kay Starr is incredible! She's so natural, like Helen, as a singer she can weave in and out of the melody effortlessly--she knew her tunes! That's the first time I've heard that cut!
The thing about those "girl" singers back then--Kay, Helen, Billie, Peggy, Martha Tilton, and so many others--is that they really were natural. They didn't try to impress with an overwrought style, straining to be "original." They seemed to know that just being, relaxedly, themselves would do it.
Anyhow, I agree: I want more Barney on that cut!
Now at least one with a "boy" singer: Oran 'Hot Lips' Page with Artie Shaw singing 'Blues in the Night' (arrangement by Shaw):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AipD8PKsEI
[note to the uninitiated: the terms "boy" and "girl" singer were the designation used in bands back then for any male or female singer, and not intended to offend post-modern over-sensitivities].
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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