 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vc
Date: 2012-08-31 13:12
I'm almost sure that the top trill key on my clarinet is moving slightly after I play for a short while making it impossible to play certain notes. The clarinet was overhauled last week, but I didn't identify the trill key as the root of the problem, and I didn't explain the problem clearly to the technician, and as a result the trill key didn't get fixed.
Is there a way I can permanently close the top trill hole/key (or maybe even the 2 top holes/keys).
I'm a beginner and I don't think I'll be needing those keys any time soon. The repair shop here is a little difficult for me to get to, but I could visit them again, if I must.
I'll admit that I tried some scotch tape (invisible tape) over the end of the trill key, but after a while the key probably still moved or loosened.
Thanks
vc
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-31 13:34
What make clarinet is it?
Most clarinets have both trill keys sharing the same set of pillars and rod screw - the top trill key is mounted directly on the rod screw in the usual manner but the lower trill key is often mounted on a tube that telescopes over the top trill key barrel which can wear out or be poorly fitted so it wobbles. If the top trill key barrel is also worn then both trill keys won't always close properly.
The key barrels can be swaged so the top one is a good fit on the rod screw and between the pillars and the lower trill key barrel can also be swaged so it fits snugly on the top trill key barrel, but not so tight that it binds up solid. It's not the easiest key to fit and when it wears out it is one of the least reliable keys considering the length - any slop is multiplied by the time you get to the pad itself so it can move by over 1mm in extreme cases which is the difference between the pad seating properly and not seating at all.
Leblanc (including Noblet, Normandy and Vito as well as the various stencils)and Howarth clarinets have both the trill keys individually mounted which makes it much easier to fit and also to maintain them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-31 15:23
Chris is, of course correct in what he's written. You might want to test a little to make sure the trill keys are :making it impossible to play certain notes."
To start with, which notes are being affected (impossible to play)?
You can try putting a small piece of plastic wrap (don't use tape - it will leave adhesive on the pad seats) over the holes covered by the two trill keys. With the plastic providing some extra seal, even if the keys move out of alignment, the holes shouldn't open and you won't get the bad effect.
The main reason I would want to test the theory that the problem is being caused by the trill keys is that a leak out of either of those tone holes really ought to disable most of the instrument, not just "certain notes" (again, it would be good to know which ones specifically).
Karl
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-08-31 16:10
It might be as well to establish with certainty that the movement is side to side and not up and down. Just to eliminate the spring as a source of the problem.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2012-08-31 16:19
To confirm that the trill key is the problem, how about stuffing a small wad of
cotton in the hole so that the position of the trill key comes irrelevant.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-31 18:23
I carry a rubber band in my case for temporary use with this kind of problem. Sulfur bleeds out of rubber bands and tarnishes silver, so if you have silver-plated keys, put the band in a plastic bottle.
Carry only one, to avoid silver tarnishing. The rubber deteriorates after about a year, so replace the one you carry every six months or so.
Since you had work done recently, take your horn back to the repair shop and ask for an adjustment.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-08-31 19:33
Bennett wrote:
> To confirm that the trill key is the problem, how about
> stuffing a small wad of
> cotton in the hole so that the position of the trill key comes
> irrelevant.
That's why I suggested the plastic film (like Saran Wrap). Cotton is porous and would not seal the hole.
Karl
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Author: vc
Date: 2012-09-02 19:39
The notes that sometimes don't play: C5 D5 E5. When they don't play, the B4 note also doesn't play at first, but then (the B4 fingering) produces a G5.
The very low notes don't have a problem playing, and I don't know about the altissimo D etc (because I'm not up to there yet).
I tried the plastic wrap over the trill hole and a rubber band over the trill key, but since that didn't solve the problem, there must be something else that's wrong. I'll be going back to the repair shop this week.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-09-03 17:19
vc wrote:
> The notes that sometimes don't play: C5 D5 E5. When they don't
> play, the B4 note also doesn't play at first, but then (the B4
> fingering) produces a G5.
> The very low notes don't have a problem playing, and I don't
> know about the altissimo D etc (because I'm not up to there
> yet).
If the tech is competent, he/she should be able to find the problem. If both the RH chalumeau and clarion notes were affected, I'd look first at the height of the top key cup on the bottom section - it might be adjusted wrong or the bridge key across the two sections could be misadjusted (I can't make myself type "maladjusted" here even though my spell checker is insisting on it) so the RH keys can't close. But if only the clarion notes are affected, one thing to check is dirt or even water in the register tube, since the register key is the only one that's different for clarion notes (open) from chalumeau notes (closed). Unless when you open the register key you're coming slightly off the thumb hole under it. That would cause B4 to E5 to balk, but it should also cause trouble all the rest of the way up the clarion register.
Could you be trying so hard to make B4-E5 speak that you're tensing your hands and actually not completely covering the RH first finger hole or the LH ring finger hole? Typically, leaks near the top of the instrument (like the trill keys or the throat keys) cause more trouble in the chalumeau register, all else being equal.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-09-03 22:23
When you are playing and you reach the point where the notes won't sound, stop playing and without moving your hands from the instrument gently roll each finger around on the tone hole. Roll it just enough to feel if there is any interference with any adjacent sliver keys, or the Ab or register keys. Also, try very slightly rotating the lower joint relative to the upper joint. If this make a difference look at the bridging adjustment.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-09-04 05:59
There are more than a few possibilities (like what Tony F suggested etc.) and hard to say without checking the clarinet (checking the instrument is likely to find the problem pretty fast). If the problematic notes are from around clarion E and down, even if there are non in the low register, then most likely there is a leak a little above that area. The top pad of the lower joint is likely.
One thing you can try is when you have the problem, try rotating the joints so the two sides of the bridge key are completely not aligned with each other. It will be weird and uncomfortable to play (angle between hands) but try to play this way. If the problem consistently disappears when you do this, then it's probably the bridge key out of adjustment.
>> Typically, leaks near the top of the instrument (like the trill keys or the throat keys) cause more trouble in the chalumeau register, all else being equal. <<
This really depends on where the leak is and how big it is. Generally a leak at the top, such as a throat note or a trill key causes more problems in the clarion i.e. it will become resistant and then die (with a bigger leak) before the lower register. A huge leak will kill both register except if acting as a reg vent for some of the lower notes making them jump to clarion.
You can try by closing the throat G# adjusting screw a bit (extremely small increments) at a time and play. You can notice what becomes resistant first, what dies first.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-09-04 22:31
I play in a couple of community bands and have run into loose top trill keys more than once. I have been approached by panicked clarinetists a couple of times between call time and downbeat. I carry a repair kit in my gig bag and have become known as the go to guy for clarinet problems. I have even been handed a clarinet mid-concert for rough regulation of a key that had been bumped hard enough to disable the instrument (everyone wants to treat their instrument well -- not everyone is totally successful). Clarinets tend to be pretty tough, but there are some adjustments that can be quite delicate. I have been able to trace nearly every case of trill key problems to careless assembly. If you are in the habit of wrapping your fingers over the trill keys to assemble the instrument, you can be fairly sure that your top two trill keys are eventually going to need swedging.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-09-04 22:36
At rehearsal yesterday evening, I was handed an instrument where the C5 key cup had been bumped hard enough that the fork was hitting the body before the pad was closed.
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Author: vc
Date: 2012-09-05 13:33
Thanks all!
Aside from the problems between the chair and the clarinet, it was the alignment between the upper and lower joints that caused the problem - as you all had surmised. I need to rotate the lower joint a bit clockwise (looking down from the mpc) to get the instrument to play properly. Thank you. I was already thinking that I have to buy a new clarinet...
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