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 a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: mikooksaram 
Date:   2012-08-28 01:20

I recently bought an R13 Greenline, partially because it is "weather proof" (though I am not daring enough to test it). I would like to acquire a barrel for it, but feel like getting a wooden one sort of defeats the purpose of the weather proof aspect. In an earlier thread, I asked about Greenline Moennig and Chadash barrels, but instead got responses about Mr. Chadash's Delrin barrels. I was wondering if that Delrin barrel, or any synthetic barrel, can match the sound of a good wooden barrel. Any suggestions?



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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: weberfan 
Date:   2012-08-28 02:33




One of the better synthetic barrels was developed by Phil Muncy at Muncy Winds (muncywinds.com) I've not played it, but my teacher used one on a national tour of "Phantom of the Opera," because the stage fog kept seeping into the orchestra pit and radically changing temperature and humidity.

He doesnt use the synthetic barrel on his Buffets all the time, but when temperature/humidity is an issue, he relies on it.

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2012-08-28 02:41

What are you actually looking for or, rather, hoping to gain by replacing the barrel the clarinet came with? Does the OE barrel not sound good?

Some makers line their barrels (or some of them) with hard rubber - Hans Moennig himself used to add liners to Buffet (wood) barrels on request - you had to supply a hard rubber mouthpiece you were willing to sacrifice to provide the insert, which he would ream to the same taper he used on the wood Buffet barrels he modified. Selmer 10G barrels are made with hard rubber inserts. I don't know which after-market makers line their bores, but there are still techs around who know how to do it.

You might be able to get a second barrel made of the Greenline material from Buffet and have a tech (or maybe even Guy Chadash or another barrel maker) to ream the bore for you to the dimensions they use in their own work.

I'm not sure, though, what you mean by "the sound of a good wooden barrel." There are as many different "sounds of a good wooden barrel" as there are skilled barrel makers - more, really, because many, like Morrie Backun, use more than one design. There are many parameters involved in a barrel design that can make a significant difference in the sound of the instrument.

If you own a barrel you like, yu might contact its manufacturer and ask about producing a barrel with the same design in a Greenline composite. Then again, if you aren't going to test the clarinet outdoors in bad weather anyway, what's the difference if the barrel is weatherproof or not?

Karl

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Lorenzo_M 
Date:   2012-08-28 03:04

I play mainly on Chadash Barrels for Bb and A clarinet now. My clarinets are two different brands/designs (Leblanc Concerto Bb, Buffet DG Prestige A) but Chadash works very well with my horns and overall concept of sound.

I own BOTH wood and Delrin for Bb and A (that's 4 barrels!). The Delrin is of the same quality and overall sound as the wood. It does have a slight tonal difference, as wood but I'll get to that in a minute. The advantage is that it is slightly self-lubricating, so you don't need to worry about using a lot of cork grease (or any) and the dimensions don't shift.

The Delrin sounds different. Not better/worse...just different. I feel it has slightly more high overtones in the sound, and it may sound more "clear" to you. In recordings it projects as well as wood, but to your ears, it may sound "softer". These are very good barrels, and if you like his design, these play as a Chadash should. They come standard with his custom clarinets now and people have been happy with them...so take that for what you will.

I'm a firm believer that material matters, BUT design trumps material every time. If you have played synthetics before and were unhappy with them, it's very likely that you played a design that just didn't work as well as wooden ones you've played. I was skeptical that his Delrin would sound as good as his fancy M'Pingo ones, but I like them enough that I bought them :)

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: DrewSorensenMusic 
Date:   2012-08-28 04:16

I agree you should try new barrels. I replaced my barrel and it makes all the difference (especially when playing in cold pits). I don't, however, see the logic in solely seeking a synthetic barrel. I think you would be greatly limiting your potential. You purchased the Greenline to prevent a crack that would cost a great deal to repair or replace. A Barrel however, even if it did crack, is only $200. Now, I know that's still a lot of money, but as a percentage of what replacing a top joint would cost, you can see why I say it's relatively small in comparison. Furthermore, most cracks in wooden instruments happen at weak parts in the wood. This would include around connecting rods or tone holes, where holes have been drilled into the wood, weakening it's structure. The barrel has no holes in the sides, is short, and many replacement barrels are thicker than the instrument itself. These all prevent cracking. I haven't heard of a barrel cracking from temperature of a single performance. I have heard of cracks happening in old barrels. I'm sure there are cases that it does happen, but I play musicals, and frequently pick up a cold R-13 Greenline with a Fobes 64mm barrel (not pushed in all the way, I need the flexibility, mainly because of brassholes. Flutes are a close second). No problems so far. I played on a Moennig for a long time on the instrument, no problems there either.

Drew S.

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: donald 
Date:   2012-08-28 06:00

My B flat barrel made by Les Nicholson has a rubber sleeve in the bore, but is in all other respects a standard "stock" buffet barrel... it plays like a dream (used for many performances with pro orchestra in NZ and concerts at Clarinetfest 2011 in LA). I can highly recommend these barrels, and the bore will never change!
dn

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Ed 
Date:   2012-08-28 10:39

Robert Scott makes a very good one

http://www.muncywinds.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/1825/category/463/

I have heard good things about those by Wes Rice

http://www.clarinet-repairs.com/clarinetbarrels.html

Pyne used to make a very successful synthetic as well.

I have played some synthetic barrels or lined barrels that play and sound great



Post Edited (2012-08-28 14:09)

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2012-08-28 11:30

I have several H. Robert Scott Delrin barrels over different lengths and they are really great. A couple are reverse tapers much like the Moennig and Chadash ones I have as well.

You may want to contact Eric Satterlee at Meridian Winds. Scott is also in the Lansing area and Eric may be able to broker a special barrel directly with Bob. Eric may even have some in stock.

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: rtmyth 
Date:   2012-08-28 14:00

I used Ridenour Ivorlon barrels,( but on his clarinets).

richard smith

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia 
Date:   2012-08-28 14:35

I may have shared this but I remember being at a music festival in 2005 and Phil Muncy's people came to visit. There were certain barrels that were all the rage at the time and most of the studio was prepared to shell out the big bucks on them. They were definitely fantastic however we were dumb founded at how amazing Muncy's plain black synthetic barrels were. They were best in house in ever aspect and only 50 dollars each.

I played on them until I found I was having some serious issues when playing Scheherazade with an orchestra. Somehow I felt like my pitch was too stable and didn't travel with the orchestra as the temperature in the room fluctuated. It was about this time Mr. Muncy started making his Muncy/Buffet barrels made of wood. They felt the same except I had more versatility in pitch.

Doesn't that sound like such a strange problem to have?

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Lorenzo_M 
Date:   2012-08-28 15:00

so...you were "too" in tune?  :)

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Wes 
Date:   2012-08-28 20:13

A delrin barrel I received a couple of years ago really lowered the pitch of the chalumeau left hand notes to an unacceptable level on my 2005 R13. The stock barrel is fine, however.

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: pplateau 
Date:   2012-08-28 21:08

Muncy winds synthetic diamond is great; perhaps a tad brighter than original wood.

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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2012-08-29 02:02

Another vote here for a robert frost. I've had a muncy winds diamond synthetic, and while it worked well, I think the robert scott I just got works even better and it's only around 65 bucks.

(BTW: Using it on a Festival Greenline)

I've had the fortune to try two of Allan Segal's barrels and they were AMAZING. Even though they weren't made for my horn, I was truly amazed at just how good they were. You might want to contact him and ask him if he has any non-wood options available to him.

Alexi

Small Group Leader
US Army School of Music NCO Academy


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 Re: a synthetic barrel that won't lose to a wooden barrel
Author: Buster 
Date:   2012-08-29 05:23

My Robert Frost "Fire and Ice" barrel is the best I've found.

-Jason

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