 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Campana
Date: 2012-08-18 08:25
Attachment: DSCF0407.JPG (1236k)
Attachment: DSCF0408.JPG (1232k)
Does any one know what the keys are made of on a B&H Edgeware circa 1962/3. More specifically whether they can be bent a little without danger of breaking.
The key is the combination LH1 ring key and the pad cup for the vent under the A key.
The pad cup arm is bent upwards in relation to the ring arm and at the moment this is accommodated by tilting of the pad in the cup.
It seems to me that the arm is so short and stubby any straightening will have to be shared by the link tube putting a strain on the arm to tube joint.
My nearest repairer is 120 miles away. He recently (Feb) did a full overhaul and was responsible for the tilted pad solution (I wasn't informed and I never noticed that the key was bent. I have just asked him if I could just post the key for straightening but he has stated that he doesn't do partial repairs and I should courier the complete clarinet to him for another overhaul and rectification...big bucks again.
I suspect this pad is leaking and the seat impression embossed on the pad tapers to zero.
Should I attempt to straighten or should I just reseat the pad by tilting it even more.
Pics attached...hopefully
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-18 09:41
Edgware keys are made from nickel silver, so they can be bent easily without a high risk of fracture. The cup arm is narrow right where it meets the pad cup so it will bend at that point and not by the hinge tube.
If the pad cup had to be bent to accommodate the pad, then the thickness of the pad is wrong - he's used a pad that's too thick and bent the pad cup the wrong way. You really need a thinner pad in there so it sits level oce seated and then you'll have to raise the height of the ring key if it sits too low.
Axe wielding time - it doesn't look like he's done a particularly good job judging by the fact he's shoved a pad in that's too thick and can't get it to seat as well as the look of the key cork and to be honest, he should've used something more durable than cork on that linkage. He'd only need the top joint to sort this out and it shouldn't cost much - if anything - to put right.
If he's going to charge you for a full overhaul just to sort out one bent key which he bent himself, then find yourself someone who can do the job properly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Campana
Date: 2012-08-18 10:13
Thank you Chris. That was very helpful. To be honest, although it seems so obvious now that you have explained it, I hadn't considered bending at the cup. I can see a way forward now. Thanks again.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-18 10:23
Put the key back on and place something between the underside of the cup arm and the body (a flat piece of steel so it doesn't damage the wood) and gently press on the pad cup to bring the front of it down.
Then check it with a feeler gauge cut from the thinnest Rizla paper (forming a long triangle with the tip of around 1-2mm) and repeat until you get the same drag all round the pad. If anything, the front of the pad should seat slightly heavier than the back (nearest the hinge tubing).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-08-18 14:01
>> He recently (Feb) did a full overhaul and was responsible for the tilted pad solution (I wasn't informed and I never noticed that the key was bent. I have just asked him if I could just post the key for straightening but he has stated that he doesn't do partial repairs and I should courier the complete clarinet to him for another overhaul and rectification <<
This is crazy! If someone did an overhaul just six months ago at the very least they should do this small repair to fix a problem that seems like they caused themselves by doing the repair poorly in the first place (if the pad actually doesn't seal with very light pressure). In reality I'd expect this to be a warrenty repair done for free (assuming you didn't cause it in any way). To tell you they will only repair this one problem if you give the clarinet again for a full overhaul is... I don't even know what to say.
I agree with Chris. It looks like the shape of the key cup arm is specifically made this way so it would be possible to bend both the the angle of the key cup over tone hole and the key cup arm in relation to the ring and linkage arm.
I also agree that one possible solution would be a thinner pad. Since you say the repairer tilted the pad, I am guessing he didn't bend the key, but simply didn't have a pad thin enough for the current shape of the key, so he tilted the pad instead of what is IMO a better solution which is to use a thinner pad or to align the key cup over the tone hole.
If you don't want to try to replace the pad with a thinner one yourself, I would try to bend the key in the way Chris suggested. I would probably use speicifc pliers for this (I can post a photo if interested) or use Chris' suggestion, though I'd probably use plastic or wood first since metal is more likely to leave if it slips, etc.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-18 14:57
Every repairer should offer a warranty on their work and honour that. Pads that have been installed properly should remain seated - if pads are leaking then that's down to the incompetence of the person who installed them and not any other factor which doesn't involve damage through accident or excessive temperature.
I'm thinking this one pad is just the tip of the iceberg and I'm curious to see what the rest of the instrument is like since being overhauled.
If you haven't got a suitable size flattened steel rod to use to bend the pad cup down with and are worried about using metal (risk of it slipping, etc.), then the heel of an old reed will work once it's been trimmed down to the required width.
But do bend it gently instead of in one go and check the progress with cigarette papers as you go. If you've gone beyond the point where it seats properly so the back of the pad is too light or open, then heat the pad cup and shift the pad around until it seats - as it's already in there at an angle (and sticking out a lot at the front), you can level it up if it's too light at the back after the pad cup has been bent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Campana
Date: 2012-08-18 17:12
I have bent the cup to a position which is true and parallel to the hole. This allows the pad to sit evenly in the cup without any perceptible need for corrective tilting.
I admit to not having the strength to bend it in on the clarinet in a controlled manner and so I had to take it off and use tools but I was very careful.
Thanks for showing me the way. With regards to the repairer, perhaps I was a bit naive to expect him to just bend the key by itself. I was under the impression that there was a standard shape for the key to be returned to. I thought pad alignment was all done by floating on shellac. Never thought that bending the key could be part of the process, so he was probably justified in wanting the clarinet as well.
Also, I don't think he thought it was still in the guarantee period. I merely referred to the recent overhaul in my email and he didn't bother to check up.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-18 18:06
Even though bending keys is a normal thing to do with any clarinet and any repairer should know when, how and where to bend keys to get the optimum result, the fact remains the pad he used there was too thick and he failed to make it seat.
He didn't reangle the actual pad cup to allow the pad to sit properly in there (showing equal depth all round when seated) but just bent the key arm up which doesn't alter the angle of the pad cup and tried but was usuccessful in making it work how it should.
Personally I'd fit a thinner cork (first choice) or leather (second choice) pad in the LH1 ring key pad cup and make sure it both vents well to make the open G speak clearly and make sure the underside of the throat A key doesn't make contact with it.
This is the reason why I went into repairing instuments myself as I had a clarinet of mine trashed by a local repairer who talked himself up (bragged on about his qualifications, visited his competitors, etc.) but was a total incompetent gobshite when it came down to it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
