 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-12 16:47
I got an older Rick Sayre K11 mouthpiece and can tell the facing is not *quite* as it might have been (stuffy, resistant). It's probably more than 25 years old. To the best of my knowledge (?) Mr. Sayre is still with us, but my question is: Can a refacer "restore" something like a Rick Sayre (or a Kaspar, or a Pyne, or a Walter Grabner) facing?
For me, the value of these historical pieces is the work done on them, far more than the material (I am a permanent skeptic about the value of "material" beyond the differences between glass and wood and rubber). All the decisions the artist made to match the facing to the tip opening and chamber style (etc., etc.) are what, IMO, make mouthpieces worth acquiring (for their own sake).
Is it possible for someone to take this Rick Sayre mouthpiece and restore it with almost the identical facing? I know I might send it to Mr. Sayre but (also IMHO) these artists change their ideas of what is good, and I do fear Mr. Sayre might return it with an entirely different curve. I have read that Charles Bay imposes a completely different facing for "MOM" than he used to.
I'm stuck in the past
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2012-08-12 16:50)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2012-08-12 18:26
I'd say keep it simple. Just send it to a good refacer. Tell him you want it a touch freer while keeping the original quality of the mouthpiece in mind. As long as a 'touch up' is done it should be what you want. If it isn't 'touched up' enough then have him do a bit more until you are happy. Just don't ask for a complete reface on it.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-12 20:24
Bill -
Rick Sayre will obviously know how to fix his own mouthpieces. If you tell him what problems you're having and what you want him to do, I think that's your best chance. At the very least, you should get in touch with him.
Like any artisan, he gets repeat business and word-of-mouth recommendations by giving his customers what they want.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-08-12 21:58
I can tell you one thing. Every time you touch a mouthpiece with sandpaper, files, etc, you are changing it irrevocably. You can never "put it back the way it was". All you can do is remove material, not put it back on where you need it. So, theoretically, it is impossible to duplicate the original facing.
Every time you alter the facing, you make the side rails wider, which changes tone and response - these changes can be beneficial or nor depending on where you are coming from.
Every time you touch the tip rail, you are loosing some of the baffle (think about it), which again can be beneficial, but is usually not.
Of course, we all have techniques for narrowing the tip rail and side rails. We all have techniques (and tools) for hand filing the baffle.
But to put it back exactly the way it was is impossible.
This is not to say, however, that an old and well used mouthpiece cannot be improved with a touch up, especially when the side and tip rails have become worn and rounded with use.
But it will never be exactly the same mouthpiece. But then, after say, 25 years use, who can remember how it originally played?
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class Clarinet Mouthpieces
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-12 22:00
Excellent points Ken and Walter! Thanks.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2012-08-13 16:10
If you want to study old mouthpieces, contact the National Music Museum-they have quite a collection!
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-13 18:18
Oh yeah, looks like they have the Marius Fossenkemper Clarinet Mouthpiece Collection. Maybe I could (hopefully, much later than present) donate mine and start the Bill Fogle Mouthpiece Collection.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-08-13 18:51
I would contact Rick Sayre, especially if you value the original work. I would think then at least it would be a true Rick Sayre, rather than a Rick Sayre/(insert name of random refacer here)
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Author: William
Date: 2012-08-13 21:39
My theory with "blown out" clarinets also applies to mouthpieces. I think most often the player tends to blame "change" on equipement rather than himself and natural aging attrition. But, as my wife often points out, I could be wrong. The only thing I know is that I have been playing the same mouthpiece for over 40 yrs and my when performance lacks something, I don't run out and buy a new one, I just spend more time practicing.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-13 22:11
I just acquired this mouthpiece a few days ago. I'm not blaming it for anything. I just have played enough to know the facing has lost responsiveness.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-08-13 22:32
I recall that the great Everett Matson used to touch up facings all the time. He said that the rails will often get rounded and develop an inward tilt due to the wear of playing.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-08-13 22:34
Being an original "do it yourselfer" I've tried my hand at mp refacing. I've had some luck.....good and bad.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-13 23:21
I tried refacing in '05 or '06. Decided to start on something I got for pennies labeled "M. Martin Master Model." I ruined it. I sold it (fully identified as "needing work") to someone who worked on it and sold it for well over $500. Turns out it was a rod rubber Chedeville. Whoops.
I put my 1200x sandpaper away forever ...
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-08-14 20:14
Bill,
A quick question which will in no way address your original question:
Does the Sayre you have at hand have an extremely concave table?
I was given a mouthpiece that Sayre made in 1981 (from a much older blank) that has a surprisingly deep table concavity.
The other numbers are 34, 22/21, 12, 6 1.15 (there is a large bump in the right rail around the 22 measurement.) There is some rail tilt/wear and the tip rail could use some attention. A tad too open for my taste.
Interestingly enough, it plays 'somewhat' well in spite of all the errors it possesses... I'm half-tempted to fix it, and half-tempted to let it lay around inertly as it currently rests with my other inert museum pieces.
.....I'm not sure if I'm stuck in the past or just living vicariously through my grandfather.
I apologize for the thread hijacking...
-Jason
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-08-14 20:46
No hikacking at all, Jason! Quite interesting and t the point. I'll take a look at it tonight. Unfortunately I'm not able to measure the facing, but I can probably see how scooped the table is.
Thanks for the background.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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