 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-08-11 09:04
Hello,
i am trying to make a modification to the upper A key in order to make it comfortable to my fingers.
The problem is that is very close to the F# ring by 1.9mm only and my finger is not feel comfortable when i have to close the F# hole.
My question is what is the proper distance between those two keys?
What is the distance at your clarinet, between the upper A key and the ring of F# key?
nikos
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-11 09:30
There is no proper distance between the throat A key touch and the LH1 ring, so you can always shorten it (by filing it down, then papering and polishing it smooth) if you need more of a gap there if your fingertips are wide.
And once shortened, it's best to have it plated to match the rest of the instrument and also to prevent the base metal wearing out which will eventually leave a sharp ridge at the leading edge of the remaining plating.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-11 09:47
If the height difference is the problem, then that can be adjusted by bending the throat A key to adjust it (and thinning down or fitting a thicker stopper cork to the underside) - but be careful the throat A key doesn't break as there's a hole drilled into (and sometimes all the way through) the cup arm for the flat spring screw, so try not to hold it beyond the point the hole has been drilled during bending.
If you need to bring the height of the throat A key touch down more than it already is, it may end up clattering against the throat G vent pad cup or compromising the venting of open G if that pad has to be lowered to make sufficient clearance. Buffets and Yamahas will only allow the throat A key touch to be lowered so much or the G vent to open so much as the G vent pad cup is conical instead of being flat (as on Leblancs) or domed (as on Selmers), so you may have to use a thinner pad in the G vent, file the G vent cup arm down or file the underside of the throat A touch for clearance when the throat A key is held down. You may also need to remove some metal from the underside of the tip of the touchpiece as well to allow the throat A key to open properly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-11 13:20
tegonikos -
The throat A key needs to be near the left index finger ring to avoid wasted motion. If it's too far away, you must roll your wrist or make another slow, clumsy movement to reach it.
How far along are you in the learning process? If you're still a relative beginner, I'd say that you should get used to it.
For me, the mental picture is not a roll but a "nudge" upward. Watch yourself in a mirror and work on making your finger movement as small as possible.
There should be absolutely no wrist movement -- no flex, no rotation -- and as little hand movement as possible. It's just the left index finger moving a tiny bit from the knuckle.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-08-11 14:10
I have more trouble with the A flat key than the A. I sometimes bump the A flat when doing fast jumps to the clarion. This always results in squeek. I have to constantly remind myself to round the fingers and not straighten them when coming off a note with complex fingering like the D above the staff to a note like the A above the staff. If my palm just grazes the A flat the result is loud and embarassing.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-11 16:37
I mostly play Boosey and Hawkes instruments. One of the things they never did very well was the shape of the key touches. B & H are notorious for their fat keys, and the keys on mine have been considerably thinned where necessary. This helps prevent problems such as mentioned here.
The Ab key caused me real problems until I remodelled it. The sliver keys were also very generously proportioned, and when these were thinned it almost eliminated spurious squeaks. The A key and the register key have been shortened and reprofiled.
These simple modifications have made the instruments a pleasure to play. I often wonder why B & H persisted with these fat keys. A lot of B & H instruments I've seen have been similarly modified, so I'm not unique in this.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-11 19:30
If you have trouble with the size and shape of B&H keys, then you'll definitely have trouble with Peter Eatons too.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-12 00:49
Hi Chris,
A friend has a pair, he's modified them much like mine. I have hands like shovels, and I find that this makes instruments from some makers impractical for me, because the ergonomics just don't work.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-08-12 06:45
>> If you have trouble with the size and shape of B&H keys, then you'll definitely have trouble with Peter Eatons too. <<
If I compare an Eaton with a Buffet R13, they are not that different at all in that sense. The Eaton has a slightly wider register key and I remember that felt a bit weird at first but got used to it quickly. But only weird, it didn't make me accidentally hit it. the main difference was it was just setup a bit higher, you could use a thinner bumper and lower it. The throat A is slightly closer to the F# ring, shaped differently and a bit wider, but mostly not in the area where the finger touches anyway. The throat G# key is actually thinner on the Eaton. The two banana keys are also pretty much the same if not slightly thinner on the Eaton. The legt pinky levers are a little smaller on the Eaton. The right pinky keys are mostly the same but a bit pointier and thinner on the Eaton towards their end. The right side keys are pretty much the same except the Eb/B which is smaller on the Eaton. I might be able to take comparison photos if interested.
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Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-08-13 16:03
Κen thanks for your response. I am in advance level but the instrument is new for me and it has a big different in the throat A key with my previous clarinet.
My previous clarinet i have use to play has almost 4mm distance between throat A key and the F# key but the new one(yamaha csgiii) has only 1,9mm.
In fast playing the A key is on my way when i have to close the F# Key.
I must say also that my fingers are big and fat.
I am just curious what is the distance in mm to other instruments ,like buffet or selmer on professional models.
nikos
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-13 16:16
Just did some measuring and my Selmers have a gap of around 2.5mm, my Leblanc LL has a gap of 3mm and my Buffet has the largest gap of 3.5mm between the tip of the throat A touchpiece and the top edge of the LH1 ring.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tegonikos
Date: 2012-08-13 18:00
thank you Chris for your answer!
i think i will make a modification on the A key and i will make a 3,5mm gap. The 1.9mm gap that yamaha has on the professional model probably is for Japanese fingers and players..
nikos
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