 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: William
Date: 2012-08-03 18:55
Can anyone who has tried these clarinets share your opinions, feelings, etc??
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-08-03 19:38
I tried it in Howarth and didn't like it one bit. The sound for my taste was far too bright and thin though that seems to be the fashion these days. For me the instrument had no depth in sound.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2012-08-04 16:09
I just tried one in Howarths as well. I wasn't all that impressed by the sound, which was quite fuzzy and lacking in resonance on the bell notes just above the break. I thought the Divine was supposed to be a souped-up RC, in the same sense as a Tosca is a souped-up R13 - but previously I've found the RC to be more free-blowing than the R13, whereas this seemed if anything duller in sound than a Tosca I blew at the same time.
But as usual, what can you tell from one instrument? Despite the price tag, I bet they vary a lot from individual to individual.
One thing that will be consistent is the low-F correction key, which seems to be the same as on the Tosca. Some people like this, but I hate it: it's so close to the normal F key, and I keep hitting it by mistake. It doesn't even seem possible to take it off. No doubt you can train yourself to adapt to it, but spending all that money for an instrument that's initially harder to play doesn't sound attractive.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2012-08-04 18:07
The low-F correction is one of the most visible, embarrassing aspects of the Tosca design. Rather than design a more clever mechanism, it looks like an afterthought. They designed a better scale for the instrument, but the trade-off is that the regular low F is particularly bad. Adding a separate key and tone hole for that one mistake is their inelegant way of correcting this. If I use it too much, my fingers end up adjusting and I either hit it by accident or don't fully commit to the motion. I'm surprised they haven't changed this.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2012-08-04 18:31
After reading about this low F correction key it is evident that Buffet needs to be sold again only this time to smarter people.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-08-04 23:15
I second that the placement of the F correction key on the Tosca and Divine was a poor choice. The classical german placement as a RH thumb key is a much better choice.
As far as training for the adjustment to getting used to it, well that should be done anyhow. People have adjusted and accepted flat F's in music (even on very fine pro recordings) for long enough. Time to adjust to a higher standard of precision.
It is basic acoustical tendencies of the clarinet that when you play low F or E on the clarinet at from forte and beyond that the pitch will go down to varying degrees without adjustments being made. The same is usually not the case with the C and B the twelfth above. I think that a low E-F correct mechanism is an important mechanism that should become more mainstream. Those who care about consistent solid intonation through in serious orchestral and chamber music will want it.
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-08-05 02:37
I have never, ever needed or even wanted to use my low F correction key on my Tosca. It would make more sense if Buffet designed a mechanism that lowered the pitch of those long notes at extremely soft dynamic levels. THAT would be helpful.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-08-05 03:55
The mouthpiece bore, along with barrel taper, has a surprising effect on the "typically" flat low F. Or we can simply call it wide 12ths as it really comes to light due to our "Chedeville" mouthpieces with their stylized deeper-baffle configuration, wider throat and "more" parallel bore. Or Kaspar pieces as well, which often possess wide 12ths with their conical bore.
Should we accept wide 12ths as a self-dooming prophecy on the Boehm system? No. Choose equipment or make adjustments without excuses. Who decreed that the same setup is required for the Brahms Quintet, or the like, as is needed in "serious professional orchestral" work. Choose what allows you to do your job, if one is possessed, as your ears tell you is needed.
Conversely, I've heard Oehler system clarinetists lay a flat low F, with an F correction, as easily as can be "accomplished" on any Boehm clarinet. Or full-Boehm.
We can make excuses, complain about key configuration, or play it in tune.
If a mouthpiece change and barrel alteration is necessary, then admit a fault in the clarinet "system" and switch without complaint.
If the Yamaha CSG II or III, Buffet Divine, or such, fixes all ails, then praise Mohammed/Jesus/Jehovah/Yahwey. I'll purchase the clarinet.
Or in the real-world, we play in tune or we don't. Not so complicated is it?
"Divine" intervention may assist, a CSG Can Supposingly Gift, or we can all quit forming well-reasoned excuses and come up with real world solutions.
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-08-07 06:22)
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-08-05 05:51
I once had an A clarinet that had various intonation problems (nothing unusual) however the scale in the clarion register was bang on in tune- actually from middle C up 2 octaves the tuner would stay on 0 without the needle moving.
I was very excited by the prospect of finally having an A clarinet with good intonation, and prepared the John Ritchie Clarinet Concertino (for A clarinet) for a performance at the OU Symposium. With some pride in my intonation, i was very happy with how this instrument handled the slow mvt (mostly clarion register lyric style).
And yet... in that moment standing on stage with a whole bunch of clarinet players listening... i managed to play out of tune! I had though i was a touch sharp so had pulled the barrel... obviously too far- so ended up slightly flat for the whole opening of the movement.
Playing tune is easier with a good instrument, but at the end of the day it's OUR JUDGEMENT (or ability to hear/judge intonation) and tone production that are the major contributors.
dn
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-08-05 17:38
It's more about not compromising for the wide twelfth. There certain points where you need a forte low F for the musical aspects. People usually play it out of tune or back off.
It is pretty well known that principal oboist of the CSO nixed anyone right away in the principal auditions that played a flat F in the opening of the Mozart concerto. Steve Williamson had the mechanism installed on his Signatures and I know Tomoji has done it for quite a few players.
A low E/F correction mechanism is a real world solution. I'm not sure how you don't think it is, Buster. Perhaps utopia of real world solutions can be found in Canton as opposed to Chicago, New York, Los Angeles or Berlin. Anything is possible. However I like the saying, "The proof is in the pudding."
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Author: Clarinet_Boy
Date: 2012-08-07 09:35
Festival here, I always thought Divine and Tosca was the best clarinet in the Buffet range. I guess it isn't what people like.
...... Ji Hoon Im
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-08-07 21:47
Serious undercutting of the next hole down should raise the low F without raising the clarion C. It has been done many times.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-07 22:37
Selmer offers a completely automatic mechanism on the Recital model and advertises that they can put it on any clarinet. Not sure whether they mean just any Selmer clarinet.
Ricardo Morales was playing a Recital with the mechanism a few years ago, but he changes instruments as often as the sun comes up.
Ken Shaw
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-08-08 08:49
"Serious undercutting of the next hole down should raise the low F without raising the clarion C. It has been done many times."
Well, i really really really wish it were as simple as that. I'm fairly sure most people who make clarinets will agree with me that it's not.
d
(and yes, i know of more than one person who has tried this to cure a flat low F, with only the slightest improvement)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-08-08 14:42
It never ceases to amaze me how many clarinetists complain about the significant design flaws of Buffet clarinets, yet continue to spend thousands and thousands of dollars/pounds/euros/etc. buying them. There are other brands out there. There are good used clarinets out there too.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-08-08 21:32
Divine? John Waters? Pink Flamingos? You all know the famous last scene.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-08-08 21:53
I've never used the automatic mechanism. I have noticed though that if I activate the low e/f mech on my CSGII's during ppp notes, the pitch is actually sharp. I prefer the discretion of using it when I best need it.
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