 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-07-29 00:19
what does the bridge do? It seems illogical because the depression of the lower rings depress the upper pad between the e tone hole and the d tone hole. even at that, in most cases the bridge only partially depresses that one pad in the upper section. The only notes I can think of where a bridge might be needed are in the altissimo where rings are depressed in the lower section but not in the upper.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-29 00:50
Garth, what bridge key and what type of clarinet? The bridge key going from the B to A or A to B During the years keys have been added, however I'm lost regarding the names of these added keys. Forgive me for not being aware of the names of these added keys.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-07-29 01:07
I'm referring to the metal arrangement that links the lower joint to the upper joint.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-29 01:31
I'm sure this is related to the alternate B to Bb, lower register and going from F the alternate F#, upper register. Hope this is your question. If not, I'm still confused. It is also often used to help tune the really high altissimo range, however I've never used this key setup in the altissimo range.
I'm also sure it is totally for tuning. So the DESIGN of the clarinet makers already set the upper joint for these alternate keys. Without this key pressed in from the bridge there is no way for the lower register will play. I'm sure you already know this. Added, the alternate keys won't work.
So in short, it is used only for these alternate keys. I'm unsure what the German system has, but these notes have a totally different fingering. I have a German clarinet somewhere in this house.
Maybe I'm still confused so others can pop in. Does this answer your question or are you referring to something else?
Thanks
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-07-29 02:10)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-07-29 06:10
The bridge "key" (actually a linkage, not a key) is mainly for Eb in the lower register and Bb in the clarion register. You finger E/B with your left hand finger and thumb, then add first finger of your right hand for Eb/Bb. The right hand rings also close this hole to help some fingerings where you add fingers for throat notes. There are also some less traditional uses for this linkage (which I'm pretty sure those who came up with it never considered).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-07-29 09:41
If you play xoo|xoo (LH finger 1 and RH finger 1 only) in the upper register, that will give you Bb (or 'long Bb'). The same fingering in the lower register will give you a slightly sharp Eb.
The same long Bb is found on flutes (where it originated) and also on saxes - it's another way to play Bb. But on clarinets (apart from alto and bass) and most saxes, lowering any right hand finger (1, 2 or 3) while LH1 is closed will give long Bb
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2012-07-29 13:48
on an Oehler system clarinet you may choose between:
1. using xox|ooo this frequently creates an intonation problem and lack of clarity
2. using xx'o|ooo ie. the lower 'banana' key (Oehler has two on theupper stack)
3. using xx,o|ooo ie. the lowest right side key (of four - won't work if there are only three as on some not-full-Oehlers and Alberts))
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-07-29 14:00
On Oehlers, the upper register forked Bb has a much better tonal quality than the keyed fingerings, but as a forked Eb in the lower register, it is far too sharp to be useful.
On Boehm systems, they need the bridge key arranged so the LH rings are operated by the RH rings ans not the other way round (or a fixed link with both LH and RH rings working as one single mechanism) as closing LH2 will close the RH rings so that will cause tuning problems with low register D and C# and (written) middle C will be missing altogether - you'll have a B natural there instead. In the upper register the A and G# will be flattened and you'll lose the G altogether and have an F# instead. In the altissimo you'll lose high E. So the bridge key is important to allow long Bb to be played as well as being linked in such a way to give the full range of notes to make the clarinet a fully chromatic instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-07-29 20:10
So, the purpose of the bridge key is only for a few notes for which there are all alternates. It seems like a lot of hardware and I always assumed it was critical in many notes until I stopped to really look at it. It also seems that the bridge is easily knocked out of alignment. My Yamaha has an upwardly turned profile on the lower half of the bridge to prevent the smashing this part is sometimes subject to. Has any other manufacturer come up with other ways to prevent bridge key damage?
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-07-29 20:21
The above identified purposes not withstanding, since the bridge linkage controls the pad between L-1 and L-2, I use R-3 to correct an open G on one of my instruments which plays slightly sharp under certain conditions. In addition, it allows the closing of that pad to correct intonation on altissimo fingerings where left hand fingers are not used. It should also be noted that, since the bridge linkage regulates the pad height between L-1, L2, and the height of the pad above R-1 it is important that it be carefully adjusted to avoid leaks and possible intonation issues.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-07-29 20:42
Bundys (and other Selmer USA clarinets) had a projecting stopper on the upper part of the bridge key linkage to raise it high enough to prevent mashing the cork up when fitting the joints together.
On clarinets without this fitted, a small piece of cork can be glued to the underside to raise the linkage to a suitable height so the linkage cork doesn't get mashed up. I do this as standard whenever I service and overhaul a clarinet, but the best preventative measure is educating players on correctly assembling the body joints.
The best way to hold the clarinet joints to prevent bending keys (and not just the bridge key) is to hold the upper and lower joints in the respective hands that operate the main action on those joints, so the left hand holds the top joint and the right hand holds the lower joint.
Starting with the top joint, lay it in the palm of your upturned left hand so the ring keys are facing upwards and the back of the upper joint is in the palm. Then close your fingers around the joint to grip it and also to close the ring keys. Holding the ring keys will raise the linkage and also prevent the keys getting bent.
With the lower joint, your right hand should be facing palm downwards and place your thumb on the two large pad cups at the bottom end to close them both, then wrap your fingers around the joint to grip it. This will also prevent any keys being bent during assembly.
The tenon cork should already be greased enough (but not overdone) and then match up the tenon of the upper joint to the socket on the lower joint. Then push the joints together with a small back and forth twisting motion instead of just pushing them together. Don't use excessive twisting motion otherwise you can mash the C#/G# and LH F/C touch together or the LH levers into the bridge key or side keys and bend them up or scratch the plating.
The same hand positions and twisting motion of the joints are used when taking the joints apart, but you'll be pulling the joints apart. In all cases, don't rock the joints as that can cause wear to the tenon and socket or break the tenon if you're really heavy handed or being too hasty and not concentrating - especially on plastic or Greenline clarinets.
On alto and bass clarinets with the double speaker mechanism with two bridge keys at the middle tenon, hold the throat A key down to raise the linkage and hold the LH fingerplates closed to raise the bridge key, so neither of the linkages will get damaged during assembly.
On full Boehms or clarinets with an articulated G# key, make sure you don't twist the upper and lower joints too far otherwise you'll crunch the bridge key into the C#/G# key pillar which will bend it and put it out of adjustment.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-07-29 20:49)
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Author: Lee
Date: 2012-07-29 21:06
You said "even at that, in most cases the bridge only partially depresses that one pad in the upper section." If depressing the lower rings does not completely close the upper pad between the e tone hole and the d tone hole it is out of adjustment.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-07-29 22:32
My preference is to set up the ring keys so the LH ring key pad closes with slightly more pressure than the RH ring key pad to ensure long Bb will work - if the LH ring key pad is set lighter and the joints aren't aligned correctly, the long Bb may not work as the LH ring key pad will remain slightly open.
Similarly with the low F/C and E/B key pads - I set them up so the F/C key pad closes with more pressure than the E/B key pad to ensure they both closed when the LH E/B lever is used only. And on basset horns and low C basses, the pads for the lowest notes get progressively lighter the nearer they are to the bell tenon. Same thing again with saxes and oboes in the low Bb closes with lighter pressure than the low B key pad. This takes into account the flexing (torsion) in the mechanism and any play between point or pivot screws.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-07-30 06:17
>> So, the purpose of the bridge key is only for a few notes for which there are all alternates. <<
Well, not exactly. The main use of this is the "alternative"... which is a good fingering sometimes (e.g. lower register Bb to Eb tremolo). Try it with the regular fingering. In addition, as several posts above mention, it can help with throat notes, where you might want to add right hand ring keys without the left middle finger key. These are not alternatives, just just ways to change clarity and intonation of certain notes. Plus the non-traditional ways of using it which are not alternatives at all too.
I prefer to adjust the 1-1 Eb/Bb the opposite from how Chris described it, making the upper pad close with slightly lighter pressure than the lower pad. The reason is that with this fingering, the top pad acts as the last closed pad, so the closing pressure is less critical than pads above the last one. If it is adjusted to close firmer than the lower pad then IMO there will be slightly too much movement at the left hand when moving from notes with this key pressed to right hand notes (e.g. C to Bb, etc.).
In addition, there is a fraction more because of flexing, very minimal on clarinets but still exists. This is why keys that are too soft can be problematic (though it's minimal on soprano clarinets). There is a tiny amount of flex to each metal part, so the relationship between the left hand middle finger ring and key and its bridge linkage at the other end is slightly different when pressing the key itself and when it is operated by the right hand. The same is also true for the right hand rings and linkage.
If both key are adjusted to be "perfect" (there is no perfect exactly because of flexing, materials, etc. but this is in theory) when both are pressed, there would be flexing when one is operating the other, making the operated key (in this case the top one) have less pressure. Adjusting both to compensate for that and close with same pressure when only pressing the operating key, then pressing left hand key and adding right hand key, will result in the right hand key first hitting the linkage and only then closing. Making the upper key close with more pressure will increase that even more.
The closing of the upper key in the 1-1 fingering is not as critical as the closing of the right hand top key for all fingering below it. So I adjust the upper key in 1-1 to just completely close, but with less pressure. This doesn't compormise the 1-1 in any way but makes the lower key feel more accurate when used for other fingerings.
It is all about the mutually exclusive ideals of equal closing pressure and simultanous closing of linked keys, which are impossible because of flexing in linked mechanisms. Using a specific amoutn of pressure, two linked keys can only be adjusted to one or the other.
It's a bit different for the F/C and E/B low keys. In that case, the F/C is not the last closed key in the linked fingering for E/B. But it is still the same issue, E/B closing both keys compared with F/C being closed and adding the E/B key. Since the pressure of F/C is more importnat here (than the top pad for 1-1 Eb/Bb) I adjust this to more or less equal closing pressure.
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2012-07-30 18:16
Some years ago, while adjusting my older R-13, Jimmy Yan told me that Stanley Drucker had him cut the lower part of the "T" away from the upper joint bridge mechanism, which would enable him to properly align the joints of the instrument even in a low light situation. I had this done to my horn as I frequently play in pits, and did find it helpful.
This is indeed one of the adjustments that frequently go out on the instrument, but, as Tom Ridenour points out in one of his videos, simply turning the middle joint on its axis can usually correct this problem. This is a very useful fingering as other posters above have pointed out, and is certainly there for a reason.
AB
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-07-30 21:46
"Simply turning the middle joint - corrects the problem".
Yes that's the case with my Yamaha. Only when the joint is perfectly aligned does depressing the lower joint ring fully seat the pad on the upper joint. Even the slightest mis-alignment causes the pad to not fully descend. This is because Yamaha apparently came up with a system to prevent bent bridge keys. The bridge key on the upper joint bends upwards at it's ends, so that if everything is not centered the lower joint bridge segment will not be pushing up on the lowest section of its mate.
My Yamaha CSV is supposedly a professional instrument. Do professionals regularly manhandle their instruments? By the time one is capable of mastering the playing of the instrument, one would hope he could also master assembling it.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-07-30 22:08
Leblanc and Selmer (apart from the 10G) have ramps on the RH ring key foot to aid assembly without ripping the silencing material off. Buffet and Yamaha have it the other way round. The 10G has no ramp at all on either part of the linkage, so it's important the LH ring key is lowered during assembly.
Either way, you're best holding the LH rings down during assembly to be sure nothing gets damaged or bent. If you want to be certain the joints line up every time, you can have markers on the joints to line up - they can be engraved in the tenon shoulder of the top joint and line up with a mark in the socket ring. I've
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-07-30 22:08)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-07-31 05:02
>> Do professionals regularly manhandle their instruments? <<
Most don't but some do...
>> Only when the joint is perfectly aligned does depressing the lower joint ring fully seat the pad on the upper joint. <<
This is a common design. The best design is that of the lower joint bridge linkage to be curved parallel to the clarinet body when the key is pressed. This means changing the alignment of the joints doesn't change this adjustment. I've seen only a few clarinets with the better design. Others can usually be modified to be this way, depending on model, the degree of change needed can vary. some might just need a material glued and shaped. Others might need to have parts ground off.
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