 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-07-27 19:26
It's been written, and repeated in many places, how the demise of the venerable Kohlert firm (dating back to the 1800s in Graslitz/Kraslice) in the late 1960s or very early 1970s was caused by an ill-advised business deal in which they contracted to produce musical instruments for "a U.S. distributor" for a fixed price, for something like a decade. With global economic changes such as inflation and the resurgence of the German economy, the fixed selling price of the instruments to the distributor resulted in the bankruptcy of Kohlert. So far, nobody has been able to identify the evil U.S. distributor; and also nobody has been able to explain why a German company sold some of their instruments under a very non-German model line name such as "Bixley".
I think I've found the answer. The tipoff was a sale tag in a Kohlert Bixley alto sax I bought on the unmentionable Internet auction site; the tag had a New York address with the word "Bixley" in it. Unfortunately I didn't keep the tag, but a bit of digging on the Internet came up with this (from the scan of a catalog, apparently from the late 1960s, of multimedia resources for public school music teachers printed by the State of New York Board of Education):
"Wm. R. Cratz Co., Inc., 14 Bixley Heath, Lynbrook, N.Y.11563.
Importers of Kohlert woodwinds; Bohm Meinl brass band instru-ments; Hofner guitars and stringed instruments; Buchner stringed instruments; and Dr. Thomastic strings, tailpieces, and rosin."
So now we know (a) who bankrupted Kohlert, and (b) why some of the models from the 1960s are labeled "Bixley".
Post Edited (2012-07-27 20:26)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-07-27 21:26
My sources indicate that the Kohlert you are talking about is not the same one that was found in Graslitz/Bohemiia. During WWII or immediately after, Kohlert was nationalized by the Germans as Amati. In about 1948, the last of the Kohlert family "evacuated" to West Germany and established a repair facility that eventually went back into instrument production.
This is an interesting resource.
http://www.saxpics.com/?v=man&manID=11
Also Google "Whatever happened to the Kohlerts?"
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-07-28 02:09
It's the same Kohlert company --- they escaped Kraslice/Graslitz in 1949 when, as you' ve written, Amati took over the factory --- but they didn't take over the owners and most of the workers, who fled to Germany and were provided a place to start over in Winnenden, where they continued until they went bankrupt in the late 60s. You need to re-read the story. I've read it a half-dozen times over the last decade or so.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2012-07-28 17:42
BartHx wrote:
>>>Kohlert was nationalized by the Germans as Amati.<<<
Kohlert was nationalized by Czechoslovakian government
Graslitz/Kraslice, now Czech Republic
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-07-28 18:32
I stand corrected on who nationalized Kohlert to become Amati. At that point the Germans were in no position to nationalize anything.
There are a number of variations you can find as to the details of what happened to Kohlert during the war and once it was nationalized. However, it seems clear that, once it was fully nationalized, the Kohlert brothers (the original "& sons") Went to West Germany and, after spending some time repairing instruments, started over from scratch in a wooden house provided to them by their city. Yes, the company was operated by the same "sons" and included a few of the same technicians, but Amati (what the original Kohlert had become) continued to operate as well (probably still using some of the original Kohlert tooling). It would then seem to be a matter of semantics whether or not the post war "Kohlert" was the same company as the pre-war "Kohlert".
In any event, all pre-war Kohlerts I have seen are identified as being made in Graslitz, but that is identified as being either in Bohemia or Czecho-slovakia (note hyphen) depending on when they were made.
What I do know for sure is that I have a Bb LP Kohlert clarinet from the early 1930s which is a fine instrument.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-07-28 18:44
Graslitz is the German name for the city of Kraslice, so it seems likely that much older models of Kohlerts may well be identified as having been made in Kraslice.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2012-07-28 23:39
Pre-war Kohlerts I have seen are identified:
V. Kohlert Sons, Makers Graslitz, Austria
V. Kohlert Sons, Makers Graslitz, Bohemia
V. Kohlert Söhne, Graslitz, Czecho-Slovakia
V. Kohlert Synove, Kraslice
V. Kohlert Sons, Makers Graslitz, Czecho-Slovakia
V. Kohlert’s Sons, Graslitz
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-29 02:14
Yes Kohlerts were based with the Czechoslovakian government. Sorry to be rude, but I'm glad they went under! The horns weren't too good from my experience.
It's good to know about past companies and what happened to them.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-07-29 02:16)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-07-29 04:24
Have to disagree with you about Kohlert instruments, Bob. They were certainly variable with era, but their bass and alto clarinets, when properly set up, are excellent (they're what I've been playing for years, various models, from wood to hard rubber and even metal, from the 1920s up to their demise).
Kohlert soprano clarinets of the 20s and 30s are really good, and their saxes up until the late 50s have a great reputation -- and although they got cheapened somewhat after about '57, they are still good horns (I also play Kohlert alto and tenor saxes from the 1960s).
One of our BB'ers has a pre-war full-Boehm Kohlert clarinet he got from me, and I believe he's pretty happy with it.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2012-07-29 19:50
Vytas:
Thank you for the additional logo information. A historian (I am not one) could, most likely, identify the approximate period of manufacturer based on how the location is identified. The Austria, Bohemia, and Czecho-Slovakia identifications, at least, are period specific for the location in which the city is located.
My memory may or may not be firing on all cylinders. However, I seem to recall reading that Kohlert was particular well known before the war for making fine bassoons, as well.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-29 22:31
I had a 1960's alto sax. Didn't work very well. Lots of problems with tuning. Maybe the earlier models were much better.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-07-29 22:32)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-07-30 12:30
Bob, I have two 1960's Kohlert altos, and one tenor -- no tuning problems whatsoever with any of them. I suspect your alto was out of adjustment. The 1950s models were more expensively built, with gold-lacquered keywork (mostly), nicer engraving and a bit better workmanship, but as far as I can tell their design was identical or very close to that of the later horns, and they pretty much play the same.
BartHX, the Lein article (written by bassoonists, by the way) which you've quoted and/or misinterpreted, was centered around the origin of the current Moosman bassoon which had its roots in the Kohlert design; reportedly the current Moosman owner's father bought the Kohlert bassoon-making tooling or something like that.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-07-30 16:53
I have a Kohlert Bb clarinet in my collection. Probably pre-war. I bought it as a junker and brought it back to life. The wood is excellent, dense and close-grained. I had some tuning problems initially, but a different mouthpiece fixed that. It now plays very well indeed, with good tuning and intonation.
Tony F.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-31 08:07
David, I guess I got a lemon. I was only about 12 years old when I got it. It was adjusted a few times and the tuning really didn't get better. I kept it through the Air Force and then someone finally stole it! I was kind of happy, but it was only worth $600 so I had to fork over a bit of money to replace it with a Conn, called the naked lady and then a Selmer MK 6. I still have both. The Conn is a pretty nice horn. The name Naked Lady was named this because on the Conn horn the naked lady was on the side of the bell. This horn does need a lot of attention as far as pad leaks. The horn weighs a lot, so I guess the metal may have something to do with why I like it so much compared to the Kolhert. It has a darker sound compared to the Mark 6, so I play this horn a lot when playing in the big bands from the 40's. It's also nice, a different warm style when playing classical music, which hardly ever happens these days.
At 12 yrs old I really didn't know a thing about saxes.
Maybe it ranks well as a good student horn, but again I was happy when it was stolen.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-07-31 08:13
Oh, the plating on the Kolhert was done well. All through the years of owning it it never pitted or chipped.
Back in the old days you could see a lot of Big Band players playing the Conn I have.
This of course doesn't make your statements about the Kolhert being of a less valued instrument. It seems that I just got a bad horn.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-01 01:07
I'd suspect the same guy that killed Cock Robin. Find out who killed Cock Robin and I think you'll find the same guy that killed Kohlert.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-08-01 04:43
It's the clarinet version of Clue, one of my favorite childhood games...
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Author: CuriousAng
Date: 2014-09-09 06:57
Hello, I am looking for info on a clarinet I bought. Mine is stamped
V. Kohlert's Sons Kraslice Bb - Number on two long pieces matches and is 319127 I'm assuming thats a serial number? It is complete in a grey case with Turner on the front of the case. Any idea how old it might be anyone??????
Thanks
Angela
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-09-09 15:51
......but why would a Nebraskan move to Michigan?
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-09-09 18:26
I read somewhere that prior to WWII, Kohlert's serial numbers began with the last two digits of the year, so if that's true yours would have been made in 1931. If not totally accurate it's probably close, somewhere in the late 20s-early 30s timeframe. I have several Kohlert clarinets of that era (soprano and bass) and they're quite good.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-10-07 06:06
Compare the bottom ends of the bottom joint on both clarinets --- see if perhaps one flares and one doesn't, or they both flare but to different degrees. Since the remaining tube and bell below the bottom-most tonehole affect the pitch of the lowest couple of notes, there is more to the pitch and response of those notes than just the location/size of the lowest open tonehole.
If you've read Dr. Benade's book, it's the bit about the 'end correction' and effective length of the vibrating air column.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2014-10-07 08:03
How does one "unsubrcribe" from this thread?
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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