 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Batiste Matumba
Date: 2012-07-25 08:09
Which are the diferences between Vintage and Prestige? Both are the same price, at least here in Europe. What do you think?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-07-25 21:34
Batiste -
The Vintage revives the original R13 design, which evolved over the years. My first R13, from 1959, was in the 59,xxx range and was the original. I loved the sound. When I tried a Vintage, everything came back. My current R13s are in the 13x,xxx range from the early 1970s and are close to the current design. The Prestige models have the current design.
The original design had intonation problems, particularly in matching the chalumeau and clarion registers. Also, the lower clarion tended to be flat, and upper clarion sharp.
The changes fixed most of the intonation problems by raising the register vent and making it smaller. One cost was that the throat Bb became very fuzzy. The other is that it lost some of the amazing extension-of-your-body playing qualities of the original.
The differences have been discussed several times, particularly at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=247375&t=226017 and <test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=62777&t=6cw2711>.
Ken Shaw
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-07-26 04:46
I actually understood that the Vintage was "the original design" WITH the customisation that Moennig did included in the package- this would explain things such as the C#/G# hole on the Vintage A (that was never part of an original R13, but which Hans Moennig sometimes added later as part of his work).
In this respect, the instrument is a bit like the Selmer 10G (a copy of a souped up R13). But then again, i have no recollection of who it would have been that told me this so i may be wrong, or only partially correct. No matter what it says on the buffet website it's pretty clear that the Buffet Vintage does not stick with the specifications of the "original" R13 design.
dn
(i don't mean to suggest that the Vintage is similar to the 10G but rather that the philosophy behind the design is similar- although technically this WOULD produce a similar instrument i am in no position to judge that)
Post Edited (2012-07-26 11:09)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-07-26 12:15
Donald -
Do you mean that the C#/G# hole has a raised, sharp rim, like the other ones? My 1959 R13 had that. Pre-R13s had no rim. In fact, the opening was slightly convex, following the curve of the body. My Buffets from the 20s and 30s are that way, and repair techs have never had trouble getting them to seal.
Moennig was an inveterate tinkerer. I've seen (but can't find right now) an X-ray of Tabuteau's oboe, which looked more like a concertina than a tube. I can easily believe that he cut a rim on the C#/G# hole. I know that he liked to cut the "wings" off of the bridge key, on the theory that the reduction in weight might improve the key action.
I believe that some of the very early R13s had a flat spring for the throat A key and perhaps the F#/C# key (which I've read that Moennig preferred, but Buffet changed to needle springs by 1959.
Ken Shaw
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-07-26 16:39
The Vintage is different in the USA than it is in europe. The European version is a prestige level instrument with many similar features that the Prestige RC and Prestige R-13 have such as a different selection of wood, aux eb key, metal tenon rings. In the USA, it is at the standard R-13 and RC level in terms of bells and whistles.
I'm a big fan of the vintage model clarinets. Main complaint I've heard about the vintage is that the twelfths are quite wide among other intonation issues. Every clarinet is different, try everything!
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-07-27 10:53
re the C#/G#/high F tone hole...
The Vintage B flat clarinets i have seen have a "bigger diameter- placed lower" tone hole for this note, compared to a 1990s R13. The vintage A clarinets i have seen (only 2, one from USA and one from Europe) had the "raised tone hole" set up- exactly as on my Tosca (where the tone hole chimney extends out from the body of the clarinet). These were two adjustments to R13 design that Moennig favoured and made to some instruments- this info is addmitedly not from my own experience, but as related to me by Lee Gibson some years ago.
dn
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-07-28 18:28
When Buffet first came out with this model they went around to different orchesrta's to allow us symphony players to try them and comment. At the time the person that came to us told us that it was modeled after the 90K series which I was playing at the time and I had to agree as far as the feel and tone. A few months later I asked about purchasing it but I was told that it went into inventory and had not idea where it was. A little later I began to try several others but none impressed me as the one I tried first so I never did buy one, I ended up with a Selmer Signature some years later. Go figure. As I've always advised with anything clarinet wise, try before you buy, as many as possible.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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