 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rob4
Date: 2012-06-21 14:03
Hi guys
I have the chance of buying a pair of Buffet RC Prestige clarinets, B flat and A, for 1,800 UK pounds total (about 2,800 USD).
They date from about 1972, hence the price.
I have been playing the clarinets myself over the past 18 months so know them well and know they are all in working order.
What I don't know is whether I really need an A clarinet. I've used it for the Schumann Fantasiestuck, yes, but wonder if I'll really use it enough long-term to justify the purchase.
I am 40 yrs old, currently Grade 6/7 and hoping to carry on playing till my dying day, but not in a pro capacity, just in amateur orchestras/bands.
All advice most gratefully received!
Rob
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-06-21 14:17
Sounds like me, in many respects. I found the A useful. It was recommended to me by a fellow flute player and he bought it for me from the widow of a Boston Sym player. It was a Robert. It got occasional use but I would have had a rough time without it. Also, the price was right.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-21 15:05
If you are planning on doing orchestral playing then an A clarinet is definitely a must-have. There are plently of orchestral pieces which require an A clarinet and others that are made much easier played on an A than the published Bb part.
I think you're best having all eventualities covered by investing in a set of clarinets and £1800 is an excellent price for a set considering how much an RC Prestige A or Bb would cost on its own.
Chances are the A wouldn't have been played as much as the Bb so it should be in much better condition, although it's always best to have both instruments brought up to top playing condition by having them both fully serviced if they're in pretty good shape (but could do with a good going over) or if they're a bit worse for wear, a complete overhaul would be in order to make them as good as new and that'll still set you back far less than a brand new set.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-06-21 19:45)
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Author: valoboe
Date: 2012-06-21 16:01
Definitely get the A even if you are not a pro. You have many years of playing ahead of you and the A will be useful in community orchestras as well as small ensembles like woodwind quintets. Take it out and play it once in awhile just to keep it in good shape.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-06-21 16:11
If you are going to be mainly stuck in bands, you won't even look at an "A" clarinet, but at THAT price, you'd be silly not to both of them if they are in good shape.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bret Pimentel
Date: 2012-06-21 16:42
For most professionals or semi-professionals, whose playing situations include some combination of orchestral music, solo repertoire, and chamber music (plus perhaps other things), the A clarinet is more or less standard equipment. For non-professionals, I think it depends much more on what you are comfortable with.
An A costs as much as or more than a B-flat, and typically gets far less use. If you're the kind of guy who is happiest being equipped for any situation, and you are willing to spend the money, then a nice pair of clarinets might be your best choice. It's not a bargain if you get a great price on something you never use and doesn't make you happy. Some people derive happiness from knowing they have that A clarinet "just in case," and some people only get happiness from it if they are really using it. Up to you.
If you don't buy an A clarinet, you may have to consider at some point turning down a playing opportunity here and there, or putting some work into transposing parts (for non-pro situations, you may have the luxury of looking at parts prior to rehearsal). For a "make do, make it work" kind of personality, it may be worthwhile to own just a B-flat and spend the leftover money on something else.
If you're not sure, you might consider buying an A, taking excellent care of it, and later selling it for most of what you paid for it if you decide you'd rather have the money.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-06-21 17:35
The monuments of the clarinet repertoire, the Mozart Concerto, the Brahms Quintet and the Brahms Trio, are for A clarinet. The Schumann Romances for Oboe are nearly unplayable on the Bb, but wonderful on the A. Also, for your general practicing, switching off on the A will improve your flexibility and let you make tone colors that the Bb doesn't usually make.
I'd say that if you can afford it, you should have both.
Ken Shaw
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2012-06-21 19:49
I agree with all above, and also since it is in your hands and you know them well I would purchase the Bb & A set. and the A as an investment that you could sell later on if needed.
Having and A then needing it is easy.
Not having an A then needing one is a potential future problem.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: ww.player
Date: 2012-06-21 20:36
I would also recommend having an A clarinet if you can afford it. The price seems very fair for a pair of Buffet pro horns. However, I do have a question.
I don't believe the RC clarinets came out until around 1975. Before that, they were called BC 20's. The Prestige line wasn't introduced until the 80's. So, either the 1972 date is off or these aren't RC Prestige clarinets.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-06-21 20:52
Yes, buy the A, if at all possible. Opportunities come up to use it in chamber and orchestra music. Last week, I played the Mozart Quintette with a string quartet on mine and next week will play the Brahms Quintet, both masterpieces needing the A clarinet. Good luck!
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2012-06-21 22:49
That's quite a good price for what is being offered to you... You can buy the set and send it to a top-notch repair man to be tweaked to perfection for less than it would be to buy a brand new RC Prestige Bb Clarinet (At least in the US). I would get the set... It's always lovely to play the Mozart Concert, Nielsen Concerto, and the Fantasiestuck with the A, and I find it fun to have the variety of feel and sound between the 2 clarinets. Also, doing warm-ups, long tones and etudes on the A clarinet is a great way to practice a strong, focused air stream, and the Bb will feel even better to play once you've switched back. Go for it!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-06-21 22:56
Yes, you need the A.
Since I've bought mine, I'm finding a wealth of music for it --many, many in my Woodwind Quintet Folder.
Plus all the things mentioned by other responders.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-06-21 22:59
I'm with wwplayer: I'm not as thoroughly versed in Buffet's history to know the minutiae as some do, but I'm confused by the model/year you've provided.
That being said I think you should own an A for the reasons described above and your level of play.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2012-06-21 23:52
If you want to be recognized as a serious orchestral and chamber music player you must have an A clarinet. If you only play in bands, owning a Bb only is just fine.
By the way, the prices you quoted seem fairly reasonable to me.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New and Used Buffet Clarinets
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-06-22 02:54
You need it for orchestra and chamber music, not so for band. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-22 08:31
If you play the orchestral version of Henry Wood's 'Fantasia on British Sea Songs', I think you'd rather play the hornpipe in the easy key of C Major on an A clarinet instead of the written part for Bb in B Major considering the speed it gets to.
And don't ever let anyone accuse you of cheating if you do use the 'wrong' clarinet if it makes things easier - it's not cheating, it's being resourceful! In my opinion, that's the whole point of clarinet playing - use the instrument that makes things easier for you. The difference in tone quality is barely noticeable between the two instruments so no-one should be able to tell which pitch instrument you're playing on at any given moment. If the A clarinet had a completely different sound to the Bb, then it wouldn't be used at all.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-06-22 09:03)
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Author: rob4
Date: 2012-06-22 08:59
Thanks to everyone for all the great replies. The Mozart concerto on its own is proably reason enough to have an A – hadn’t thought of that!
I have probably got the date wrong so apologies for the confusion. They were apparently owned by the principal clarinet in the Finnish Symphony Orchestra way back and some of the ring-keys are worn thin. He was practising more than me. Then my teacher had them since he was eight and has played them professionally. Anyway, looks like I’ll have to start persuading my bank manager I need two clarinets!
Thanks again for all the advice.
Rob
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-06-22 11:51
On the other hand, the Sailor's Hornpipe in Gilbert and Sullivan's Ruddigore is very clumsy as written in Eb for the A clarinet, but smooth and easy transposed in D on the Bb.
The famous cadenza in Tchaikovsky's Mozartiana, written for C clarinet, is nearly impossible on Bb, but very playable on the A.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-06-23 12:35
This year at the Phila. Orch. Summer Student Festival, there was a 10 yr old who needed an A.
If you're playing in Orchestras, you almost always need an A.
That poor little 10 yr old didn't have a chance transposing works like Beethoven 2 on the Bb........ was hard enough for him on the A.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-06-23 13:46
As an amateur (now aged 64), I love having a clarinet in A, especially thanks to the vivid memory of having gone all the way through high school orchestra with only a clarinet in Bb. Often, those rental parts for student orchestras came with a transposition for a Bb clarinet, but not always.
I'm glad I learned to transpose, yeah -- it's a useful skill that I still use quite a bit for understanding how to compose music for different instruments and also while practicing the clarinet and other winds, because on any momentary whim, I can shamelessly poach on music never written for whatever instrument I'm practicing. But transposing is a lot more difficult (for me, at least) under the stress of rehearsing and performing with a group. Sometimes tone quality and phrasing get sacrificed due to the concentration required to play the right notes, for instance. No doubt in my mind that I would have made a much better orchestral clarinet player if I'd had the whole set of instruments.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-06-23 20:30
In my youth I spent years playing only Bb and bass clarinet. When I returned to the horn, I had the opportunity to get an A clarinet cheaply. While I don't play it much, I love when I get the chance to.
Playing all three Gershwin preludes alone (i.e., the second one is for A clarinet and would be in B major, I think, for Bb....so, why torture yourself!!??) made the purchase worth it. Plus, all of the orchestral opportunities that I don't have to turn down now.....
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2012-06-25 02:57
Ever since I got an A about 5 years ago, I have loved having one and love using it when I can. Right now I'm using the A clarinet for some wind quintets, including the op. 88 no. 1 Reicha quintet that's written for clarinet in C, but not owning a C clarinet (yet), and the entire piece for the Bb would be between 3-6 sharps, for the A it goes between 2 flats and 1 sharp. I'm also using it for a concert in late September with music for clarinet, voice, and piano, for performing a piece my husband wrote a few years ago, the original part was on the B flat, but there are some sections that are very difficult to play, but easy on the A, it's a fast section in F# minor for the B flat, (and involving the second octave, from 4th space E/E# to top line F#, not really good with either standard or alternate fingerings), but in G minor for the A clarinet, easier to play. I played a couple of instrumental parts with the choir of my husband's church, where either the resulting key would have been a bad one, or the richer, or more somber sound of the A makes it much more suitable than the B flat. And now working on the Mozart concerto, having used it for the clarinet quintet as well. Now I also get a wider range of pieces that my husband arranges music for, since there are more suitable keys, especially pieces like the slow movement of Schubert's 'Great' A major piano sonata. And of course, using it for orchestra pieces that call for the A clarinet.
I really barely know how I lived without an A clarinet. Well worth the money.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: davyd
Date: 2012-06-25 03:29
I've used my A instrument a few times in concert band, transposing passages in orchestra transcriptions to an easier key. Back when I used to play for folk dancing, the A came in handy quite often.
Bass clarinet in A would come in handy now and then, but probably not often enough for most of us to justify what one costs.
I'm supposing that a lot of players would like to have a B oboe or a D alto sax or something along those lines for when [stuff] gets real. I wonder if this is why the Db piccolo used to be required so often in band music.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-25 09:12
A Db oboe would be ideal for doing military band transcriptions of orchestral works that have been shunted up a semitone from their original key - as well as a cor anglais in Gb! If only ...
The old simple system 6-key Db piccolo has given way to the standard Boehm system C piccolo which is a much more fluent instrument (the 6-key piccolos are better at playing music in sharp keys), but most piccolo players have learnt to transpose Db piccolo music on the fly on their concert pitch Boehm system one. Although there are modern Boehm system Db piccolos so the player doesn't have to transpose.
Although it's naturally assumed a Bb clarinet is best used for playing in flat keys, keys such as Gb Major (eg. Ravel's 'Introduction and Allegro') are best written for (and played on) an A clarinet which only has three sharps. Another instance but which saves switching to Bb and back (and later on to Bb again in the same movement and finally back to A for the remainder) is in Dvorak's 9th where the 2nd movement is in concert Db Major and the printed part is for Bb (and changing back and forth to A) - stay on the A throughout and only change the key signature from Eb Major to E Major leaving the prinetd note positions unaltered. Easy peasy! It also means the instrument is still warm throughout and you're not suddenly playing a cold Bb and letting your already warm A clarinet cool down in the interim.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sydney Lusby
Date: 2012-06-27 18:55
I really enjoy having an A clarinet. It like playing the low notes that the A clarinet portrays! I think it is well worth the money! If you want something to play try the Mozart Concerto. I promise you have heard it!
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Author: Alex Eich
Date: 2012-06-30 10:12
There is the little matter that, aside from its utility, a good A is a gorgeous thing to play. Warming it up and just letting it sing is one of the most enjoyable parts of clarinet playing for me.
So if it's a goodie and you can afford it, big yes from me too.
A little eco note though - not directed at you Rob but rather at those reading this who are also considering buying an A - do look at used ones people. They are frequently better than new horns and always better priced. Save some of those increasingly rare Ebony and Cocobolo trees on which we rely.
Alex
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Author: rob4
Date: 2012-11-25 07:44
Just a quick reply to this thread, i have now bought both the a and b flat buffets, at least in part after the excellent advice received here, and am very happy with them. Thanks to all who posted!
Rob
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-11-25 08:22
My teacher used to make me play many of my pieces for Bb on the A to build up my stamina. I bet there would be some sort of child cruelty law against it now ;-) The Mozart sounds way more beautiful on the A. Now where's that basset I lusted over? ( Just joking........:-)
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