 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: g3clrnt
Date: 2012-06-12 20:33
I have a fairly old RC A clarinet, around 20 years old or so, it sounds great but the throat Bb is super stuffy, is there anything I can do to remedy this? I've obviously inspected the register tube for debris, and the the throat A plays quite well. It is very annoying since the rest of the notes are very nice. This seems inherent in a lot of the older RC As I've tried but mine seems to be particularly awful, is changing the register tube something I can do? Or should I forget about this instrument and 'put it out to pasture'. And focus on saving for the Tosca A greenline of my dreams :-p
Help!
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-06-12 20:38
No worries, a problem on most instruments. Just keep adding different combinations of keys until you get something that sounds good and is in tune. I add the left hand middle and ring fingers to my Bb, as well as other combinations down to G.
Drew S.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-12 20:38
Try to use the Bb trill key whenever possible - not very practical I know, but it's just one of those things that are worse on A clarinets compared to Bbs.
It's the nature of the beast. The speaker tube has to serve as a speaker vent and throat Bb tonehole so compromises have to be made - the throat Bb is the one that's compromised in favour of an easier upper register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-06-12 20:40)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-06-12 20:39
How'bout the alternate Bb, aka throat A plus side trill #3 (counted from lowermost)?
For long and exposed Bbs I nearly always use that fingering, just because it sounds so much better. For fast Bbs, who cares... ;-)
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-06-12 22:35
In many situation I do the 2nd and 3rd fingers of both hands. If you have more flexibility in the passage, the 3rd fingers of both hands plus the pinky F/C key (either pinky).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-06-12 23:31
I have an RC Bb and a Lyrique A. The Buffet calls for "resonance" fingerings to clean up the pinch Bb, and I use RA 0XX|000C. Sometimes, I add those other tone holes and the C-key to the throat A. The Lyrique doesn't need the help so much.
It's a bummer to have to finger the two horns differently.
Bob Phillips
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Author: g3clrnt
Date: 2012-06-14 22:46
Thanks all, I've tried a combination of all the resonance fingerings, and I do resort to the side trill key when I can, but still to no avail, it's hard to describe... It's not only that it's stuffy, the resistance suddenly amplifies 3 fold when I press the register key. I am borrowing a fiends r13 A, which has the typical stuffiness one would expect. The side by side comparison leads me to believe my RC A is just plain old defective :-(
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-06-14 23:09
Well, that is bad news. If it is playing different than a comparable instrument, maybe call around to experienced techs in your area that are qualified at voicing instruments. I'm lucky here on the east coast, I live 45 minutes from Mike Hammer, a Buffet dealer, but more importantly a fantastic repairman of saxes, flutes, clarinets, and maybe even oboes. (I think he became a salesman second, and started as a tech) Good techs usually get a reputation and are well known, so maybe ask around to a few sources, and if they all say the same name, that's probably the guy to call. I know nothing about voicing an instrument, and don't know what would be possible for your problem, but it's worth a shot at this point. Good luck.
Drew S.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-15 00:16
If you are doing a fast passage run and the Bb is noticeably stuffy several things can be done. Undercutting, a thinner cork pad, and maybe open up the key very slightly, however be careful not to mess up the A or the Ab intonation.
For long notes, the people posting above are very correct regarding assorted fingering with the lower register.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-06-15 02:31)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-06-15 00:40
Cork register pad? Chamfered o.d.?
Before swapping/altering the register tube, a less invasive "Hasty" type pad may be a possible solution.
This also has the nice side-effect of eliminating the A5 "grunt" tendency if present.
The current register tube can be shortened (a somewhat common practice on Buffet A clarinets), beveled, or completely replaced if the remaining notes sound "pretty" in lieu of a stuffy Bb4.
Much more cost effective than a new clarinet.........
-Jason
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-06-15 00:46
I'd suggest getting a Register Tube made by a good repairman, if the pad change doesn't work.
That absolutely can make a difference.
disclaimer:
I'm the Galper Register Key/Tube distributor (which is only for the Buffet Bb Clarinets). It's currently out of production/stock.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-15 03:02
After reading the 2 above posts, which I agree with, I have to discribe the cork pad I use and shape.
When buying a cork pad they are all the same, and usually very good quality, of course depending on where you buy them. As with most people I prefer a softer cork pad.
For the Bb and the A keys, not the register tube, I thin down the cork.
Heres something I do thats a bit different from most repairmen. With the outside round part of the cork pad, the circumferance, I also thin down this outside diameter, because the actual holes of the throat tone holes on the clarinet are very small. So why cover the hole with an oversized cork pad? This causes the air flow to be more resistant I taper the cork in a slight angle. This of course allows more freedom for the air to escape, thus less resistance. With a non cork pad I'm not sure if any of them can be fitted/tapered like the cork, unless the pad is skinless. Maybe it can be cut carefully. That would also work well. A synthetic pad perhaps can be cut carefully with a very thin razor blade. If someone has done this let me know what kind of pad you used.
Tube - I haven't seen any for the Bb, but I did replace the one on my A. I bought it from Levi for $10 and you simply pop out the old one and pop in the new one. Levi is at RDG Woodwinds in Hollywood, CA
Hope this makes sense.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-06-16 05:46)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-15 10:54
David - as usual I agree with you.
Most of the time you need to seal the tube once you pop out the Buffet tube. Be careful what you use. Contact cement will seal it, but it's another story removing it. I've heard of people using bee's wax, others use shellac. Some repairmen use both. To replace a tube back to another tube, simply heat the tube and it will pop out with very mild force.
However Buffet doesn't use anything. It's pushed in without any sealants. When you replace the tube, sometimes it's an exact size and nothing is needed. I recently used the shellac and on top, a tiny layer of the wax. By taking the keys off and covering the holes you will know if you have a tight seal when using a leak testing machine that measures the amount of air escaping. The goal is to get a zero to 1. When you hit 2, well you need to reseal the tube. It's really an easy process and pretty much anyone can do this. Just be careful not to ding up the bore when removing any tubes.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-06-15 11:19)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-06-15 14:40
>> I recently used the shellac and on top, a tiny layer of the wax. By taking the keys off and covering the holes you will know if you have a tight seal when using a leak testing machine that measures the amount of air escaping. The goal is to get a zero to 1. When you hit 2, well you need to reseal the tube. <<
There is really no need to use anything in addition to shellac, if you use shellac.
As far as the machine I assume you mean a magnehelic machine. A measurement doesn't really mean anything unless it is compared with a different measurement tested by the machine set up by the same person, or at least a simialr machine that you know was set up the same. Two people using two magnehelic machines might set them up differently (even a lot differently) and can get different results if testing the same instrument.
I have a magnehelic but found that a mouthehelic works just as good, however the specific way that you blow air into the instrument is critical. Simply blowing is not precise enough. You need to "squirt" air by forcing the air that is already inside your mouth, as opposed to blowing air form the lungs.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-06-15 15:44
Yes, changing to tube can be a good solution if all the above doesn't work to your likeness. If you do this go to someone that has many different sizes because they will all make a difference. Bring your tuner because some may cause your upper register to go sharp or flat. You have to find the right tube for the Bb as well as intonation there and elsewhere. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-06-15 20:31
One of the desirable features of my Ridenours, compared to several other makes I owned, was their clear Bb.
richard smith
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2012-06-15 22:19
Personally, ESPECIALLY if the rest of the clarinet is as good as you say, I think you're better off fixing the Bb than scrapping a clarinet for ONE note. I mean, WORST case scenario, you send it somewhere and have a tech custom design/fit a new tube in there cutting it just right, measuring it just right, etc. And that'd be FAR less than a new clarinet.
I always believe that it's more economical to send a "good" clarinet to a GREAT tech and have the thing essentially custom tuned (undercutting, pad heights, widening or narrowing tone holes, etc.), than it would be to sell a "good" clarinet and HOPE for a great one brand new somewhere.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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