 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2001-02-25 21:19
Hey all!
I've got a solo competition next week on my bass clarinet. I'm performing the Mozart Bassoon Concerto k191. It's a great piece, especially with the extended the range. The only problem is, my dynamic range seems very limited right now, especially the low C, which I'd love to bring out much more. I'm not sure why this is happening. It's not breath support, I can get throught the phrases just fine. My instrument had a checkup only about 4 months ago. Any suggestion on what to try? I really want to impress the judges and go on to State competition.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-02-26 17:54
Francesca -
Basses can go out of adjustment overnight. Have yours checked again.
Breath support is more than just having enough air to get through the phrases. Exhale completely. Then drop your lower abdomen down and out and then immediately inhale. You should feel the breath go all the way to the bottom.
At the end of inhaling, your chest will rise due to the expansion below. Don't lift your shoulders. Your chest should come up by itself.
Then let the air flow out. You shouldn't have to blow much. Think of pushing down and out, rather than up.
I guarantee you'll get dizzy the first few times you try this. You'll also be surprised at the volume of sound you can make on bass.
You can control the reed better if the mouthpiece is angled like a soprano clarinet. Sit forward in your chair, tuck your right leg back by the chair leg, turn your right foot out and brace the end of the floor peg against the heel of your right shoe. It helps to use a neck strap.
Make sure the bottom of your reed is sanded absolutely flat. Any leaks can kill the volume. Also, try a slightly softer reed. It will give you more resonance and make it easier to play with the elegance the Mozart needs.
Good luck. Keep us informed on how you do.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-02-26 18:05
Francesca--I don't have an answer for you but I'm in the same boat regarding the low C on the bass. As I mentioned on the thread about my low Eb Selmer (you gave an interesting response) I currently have on trial from WW/BW two low C Selmer basses (model 37s). One of these horns plays especially well, without the stuffy clarion and altissimo notes I encounter on my low Eb horn (model 35). However, both of the 37s have a problem in the extended range, and particularly on the low C, with the sound breaking up when playing at a loud volume. It's a sort of gurgling or rattling sound like someone clearing their throat. Very unpleasant and distressing. Have you encountered this sound? A repairman I talked to on the internet (Gordon from New Zealand--I believe he contributes to this phorum) says the problem is probably either leaks in the low range, or uneven pressure of the extended keys. Do you know other low C bass players, and if so have they had problems with their horns' extended range? I've heard that the extended range is difficult to properly regulate and keep in adjustment but I would like to know that it is at least possible for the bottom notes to sound strong and clear. I'm going to take one of the low C horns to my repairman tomorrow to see what he can do. I'll let you know how it comes out.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-02-26 18:24
Question for Ken. Ken--your post went up just before mine. I hope Francesca doesn't think I'm horning in (no pun intended) on her thread but maybe we're both experience mechanical problems with our low C basses. Have you ever heard of the problems I described in my above post? I suppose there are three possible answers: either both of the low C basses I have are defective, it's just a matter of proper adjustment, or an unstable extended range is inherent to the instrument. As I mentioned above, I'm taking one of the 37s in tomorrow to have it checked out but if somebody could tell me that the problem I described is a common one and is easily fixed I would sleep better tonight.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-02-27 21:18
I just got back from my repairman's shop. He made a couple of adjustments and closed off a couple of leaks--not much difference; still the gurgling sound. Then he spotted the problem: one of the lower notes that is not under direct finger pressure while in the extended range--either the Ab/G# or the Gb/F# I'm not sure which one--was blowing open when I played below low Eb. So he increased the spring tension of the offending note. What a difference! Now I can give the extended range notes--even the low C-- everything I've got without a trace of the gurgling sound. I should sleep like a baby tonight.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-02-27 22:56
Robert -
I think low C basses are inherently more difficult to play than those going only to Eb. The extra length creates extra resonances and, everything else being equal, has less life in the sound. However, there's so much variation among basses that you have to go with the model and the particular instrument that works best for you.
Many professional players prefer to use an instrument to Eb unless the music calls for the lower notes. I know the Philadelphia Orchestra bass clarinetist does.
At a Buffet show recently, I played a very good example of the newest model Buffet low C bass. It had a fine sound and responded quickly and easily, as it ought to given the astronomical price. However, I still preferred the sound of my older Buffet bass to Eb.
The extra mechanism on a low C bass has more levers to get out of adjustment and more pads to start leaking. Fortunately, this won't affect the playing if you don't use the low notes. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the mechanism, particularly on the Selmers, Yamahas and new Buffets, all of which are well designed.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-02-28 03:03
Ken--in comparing my low Eb bass (Selmer model 35) to the low C bass (Selmer model 37) mentioned above it seems that the 35 has a livelier sound and a quicker response in the chalumeau while the 37 has a more open and less resistant clarion and altissimo. I'm hoping, though, that the 35 can be adjusted to play as well in the higher registers as the 37 which would make it the better all around horn (except for not having as much low range as the 37). But the 37, now that it's properly adjusted, is still a very nice playing horn and I really like having an extra three notes on the bottom to play with. And with the extended range I can play the Bach cello suites--one of my all-time favorite pieces of music--without transposing; I just read it right from the cello score (a little slowly as it's mostly in bass clef). The Mozart Bassoon Concerto that Francesca mentioned also sounds like something I should look into. So I foresee plenty of playing with the 37 and it's extended range and if it goes out of adjustment I've got my 35 for backup.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-03-01 11:48
Learn the bassoon that is what the work is written for and stop this sacriledge immediately.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-03-01 18:09
Robert -
Selmer basses almost all play very easily. Buffets take more effort, but, at least for me, have more depth in the tone. But as I said, instruments vary so much that you can't make any rule. The New York Philharmonic bass clarinetist has an ancient Selmer, on which he sounds fabulous. I have never played it, but everyone I've met who has says it's the best bass ever.
The Hindemith Bassoon Sonata works wonderfully on bass, without transposition of the piano part. The BC virtuoso Josef Horak told me that when he played it for Hindemith, Hindemith told him it sounded better than it did on bassoon.
So much for that bassoon buffoon. We stole the music fair and square. It's in our religion now, and he'll just have to get used to it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-03-01 18:41
Ken--the Hindemith sounds interesting. But isn't the bassoon a "C" instrument. And wouldn't that mean that either the bass clarinet or the piano would have to transpose? The nice thing about the Bach Cello Suites is that since they're unaccompanied there's no need to transpose. There is a transcription of the Cello Suites for bass clarinet but it is transposed up a whole step to match the cello pitch. I feel this is not only unnecessary but puts the bass in less comfortable keys than when simply reading from the cello music. I have heard many good things about the Buffet basses. I tried one out about a year ago (low C model) next to a Selmer 37. I couldn't really judge the quality of the tone of either instrument because I had almost no experience on the bass at that time and could not produce much of a sound. The Selmer felt a little more comfortable under the hands (probably because I play Selmer saxophones) but I found the low C extension awkward and a little bewildering so I ended up getting the low Eb Selmer (model 35) a short time later. I think it's probably a good idea to spend some time with a low Eb bass before proceeding the low C.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-03-01 18:46
The last sentence of my above post should read--...before proceeding TO the low C.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-03-01 20:31
Robert -
Yes, you will have to learn to transpose in bass clef to play the Hindemith Bassoon Sonata on bass clarinet. If you're a serious player, you will have to learn to do this anyway. It's not that hard to get used to it. The other possibility is to write out the solo part transposed in treble clef. It may have already been published that way, in a version for bass clarinet.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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