 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-05-02 07:25
I have a few R-13 horns, one from the mid 70's and 2 new ones from this year. An A and a Bb. I don't play the horns from the '70's anymore so I'm toying with trading them in.
I will be testing some Tosca Bb horns tomorrow and if anyone plays these Tosca's can you give me some insight regarding what to look for in the horn. I heard that the bore is shaped a bit differently, compared to the R-13's. Should I look into a different barrel, or stay with the stock barrel?
I'm wondering how the high register plays and also the bridge going from the throat A to B. Is the A to B transition fairly smooth? If some of the fellow Tosca readers here can offer advice regarding the differences between the R-13 and the Tosca I would surely welcome any advice and or observations. Is it worth the difference in cost between these 2 horns?
Any other help and comments will greatly help. I'm not buying it tomorrow, but I will put a hold on 2 or 3 of them for a day or 2, because it may rain tomorrow. For me I dislike the sound quality of the reeds and often the horns when the humidity is this high. The owner has no issues with me holding the horns for a few days. She actually stocks my new mouthpieces now so we have a good relationship. I have an appointment with the repairman, thus the reason for wanting to test the Tosca while the repairman does his magic. It takes about 3 weeks to see the repairman, because he's that good and I don't want to delay having the repairs done.
Thanks in advance for all of your comments.
I will write something once I've tested them.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-05-06 22:08)
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Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2012-05-02 11:36
I currently play a Tosca Bb and R13 A (and have tried a few R13s) and I can tell you that the difference between the two models is well worth it. Personally, even the difference between the R13 and Festival is worth it.
One of the key differences that between the Tosca and the R13 is projection. I notice this constantly when changing between Bb and A in orchestra. The Tosca can project the pianissimo through the orchestra with ease, whereas the R13 needs a bit more coaxing. Sure, there are the differences between A and Bb, but the differences in projection are quite profound (I have also tried Tosca As which project like the Bb, but am trying to save up the money!)
Another thing that I think of is that R13s have a sound that seems to center "in" the clarinet, whereas the Tosca's sound is more enveloping, if that makes sense.
In regards to barrels, I haven't experimented with any other barrels, and am not too sure whether the Muncy or Chadash etc. barrels would work because of the bore design, and I've never tried Backun, but I'm also interested in finding out if you try any barrels with the Toscas!
With the transition over the break, it's very smooth and even. Playing with R13 using colleagues, they all seem to have a little bump when hitting B, but the Tosca has a seamless transition. Something that took me a while to get used to though was the height of the A key, which sits a bit higher than the R13 key work.
Also on the topic of keywork, you'll notice a lot of difference between the two, especially the R/H side Eb/Bb which my R13 friends say is a bit higher. Also, my R/H pinky kept wanting to go for the low F correction instead of the normal one, but once again you'll get used to it.
What to look for in a Tosca is basically the same as any other clarinet. Just make sure the tone is good and not harsh, etc. and to your liking. Make sure the clarinet "rings" especially concert A, which should be really light, easy to play and project well.
R13s are still wonderful horns, and the certainty about them is great, but I think that the Toscas are definitely a cut above and are well worth it.
Hope I've helped somewhat!
Richard
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Author: William
Date: 2012-05-02 19:16
Only for the FWIW dept., the above description could also be applied to my set of Leblanc Concerto clarinets, especially the smooth transition between A & B and the focus of the pp notes. I have not played the Tosca, so perhaps my comments are not helpful, however, just wanted to offer my thoughts...... My Concertos were designed and customized by Tom Ridernour while he was with the G Leblanc Corp. at the old Kenosha facility.
Afterthought, wondering how the tuning of the low F & E is on the Tosca??
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-05-03 00:34
I had a 60's era R13 before I got my Tosca. The difference was and still is amazing to me... As others have said, the Tosca resonates and projects in such a way that it can always be heard, and not in a bad way at all. My tone is considerably darker and more full on my Tosca. I use a euro-style Taplin-Weier barrel with it, and the absence of metal rings makes the tone even darker. Besides all the cracking business I had with my Tosca last February, I don't regret buying it at all.
That said, when I went to WWBW to test clarinets in Fall of 2010, my chosen Tosca was considerably different than all the others I tried. When I went, I had absolutely no intention of purchasing a Tosca-- my clarinet professor had warned me that Toscas he had heard and tried had a "dead" tone to them. The one that I chose had this singing quality that my R13 and all the other Toscas and other models did not possess. After purchasing the Tosca, I went to a lesson with my other clarinet teacher and had her listen to blind playing tests on both my clarinets. She liked the Tosca because she said the harmonics went up considerably higher on it than on my R13...!
So, you may have to go through a few Toscas to find the right one that "sings"... but, when you find it, you'll know.
Oh, and the fancy keywork is WONDERFUL. William, I really don't use the low F correction key... it makes it far too sharp. Others may like it, I don't.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-05-03 04:48
Hi!
If you have time to test any Festivals, it would be great to read your comments also. Thanks.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-05-05 13:58
Quality control at Buffet is as such that you never know how any given horn may perform.
I felt that they were extremely stuffy and the intonation was a nightmare. Furthermore it was obvious to me that even spending 13k on a set that you would still need to spend another thousand dollars to have them serviced. I'm sure had I gone to a rather well known orchestral clarinetist and selector that those Toscas would be much better. That is an additional premium.
I'm also a big believer in having a matched set of clarinets. If there isn't enough money in the budget to get two Toscas then it is better to get a set of something else. The last thing you want is to struggle with reeds that work with one horn but not the other.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-05-06 22:04
Hello William and bethmhil - what the heck is "FWIW dept?" Most likely everyone in the world knows what this is but me!
The clarinet store, RDG here in Hollywood had a few, but I didn't have time to try them, because I was busy with the repairman. The weather was rainy, so another reason not to play them.
I still have a few horns, R-13's that I don't use, so I may head over there just to try the Toscas, so as of now I can't make any judgements. I think I will ask if I can borrow one at RDG for a few days. Nancy, the owner is pretty cool. Cute too! It's hard to judge a horn away from where you usually practice and perform.
The new R-13's I bought a few months ago had major leaks. I was amazed that new horns can leak that much when new. Shame on Buffet... After the adjustments were made at RDG the R-13's Bb and A really played great. I am really really happy and the adjustments make playing the horns fun! I don't have to work very hard to get the notes to respond, such as dealing with the break and the out of tune throat notes. A few of the pads were bad in the upper joint of the horns, so getting the lower notes took work to make the notes speak freely. Some pads were also changed in the lower register. On the A clarinet that tube that sticks into the bore of the horn was leaking badly, needless to say that alone can really wreck the response of a horn. Again, shame on Buffet. Very frustrating.
Since the horns play so well now making my mouthpieces will surely take less time and I will be able to hear what I'm looking for when making the final adjustments.
I will give a report in the next few weeks or less about the Tosca horns, if I can try them at my studio. Thanks everyone for taking the time to tell me about how you liked the toscas and the La Blanc horns. RDG doesn't carry the LaBlanc line or the Selmers. The test room at RDG is dead, so you really can't make any type of quality judgements.
James, thank you for advising me about purchasing a set. I can afford 2 and it made me ponder why I'd need 2 different reeds. Makes total sense. One of the interesting findings were the reeds. With the leaky horns I was playing the black box 3 1/2+ Vandorens. They won't play now. Too soft, so I will have to rework them, which is pretty simple. I will buy some 4's next time I run outta reeds, which will be about a year or so. Now I understand why you commented of different reeds for each horn.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-05-07 01:57)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-05-07 18:33
I would question the sort of store that puts out new horns in the condition you mention.
Yes over here in UK there are some places (I would never contemplate using) that just sell straight out of the box but all the reputable stores have the instruments run through their workshop and then play tested by a pro before ever putting them on display.
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