 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: panther2
Date: 2012-04-15 16:51
I've been reading up on proper embouchure and effects of biting down on one's playing. For me, I am a huge biter, and I feel as though it affects other aspects of my playing, so much so that it actually covers up what I'm good at. I haven't really been able to significantly improve other aspects of my playing because I feel as if my biting problem is in the way. When i double lip, I have a great tone, and fantastic technique, and I have a fast tongue. However, I bite the sound out of my clarinet, and my erratic fingers hide my technique, and having a fast tongue is somewhat pointless if your fingers are out of sync. I read that Biting causes unnecessary tension that in turn passes to various parts of the player, such as the shoulder, throat, hands, and fingers. This tension thus causes erratic fingers, and lack of control, bad tone etc etc. To quote this precisely, "Double lip reveals the degree of hand ad finger tension by the amount of jar transmitted to the embouchure. Double-lip will correct tense arms, hands and fingers since it cannot tolerate the excessive jostling provoked by rigid operation of the clarinet"(The art of Clarinet Playing, p 48). So, in theory, if I stop biting, then I will open up, eradicate all this tension, resulting in relaxation that corrects my erratic fingers? Can a double lip embouchure (even only for a couple months) really fix all my problems? Is it that simple?
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-04-15 17:05
You've pretty much posed the question and answered all in one paragraph.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: srattle
Date: 2012-04-15 17:05
If your problems are solved by playing double lip, why not just play double lip?
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Author: panther2
Date: 2012-04-15 17:20
I have no problem with the double lip embouchure, I just don't want to be a double lip player. I know there are many double lip players out there, It's just very taxing for me. I often have to stand up when I play and this is especially difficult, even with a neckstrap. If I play seriously and religiously on double lip for a few months should I see significant improvement? What will happen when I go back to single lip?
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Author: Randall
Date: 2012-04-15 17:25
Playing double-lip should remedy the problem, or you're going to be sore in the mouth. Let your lips do the work, not your teeth. Good luck. R
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-04-15 18:46
The only reliable answer to "what will happen if..." comes from trying it to see what *does* happen (which is reasonable when life and limb are not at stake). Playing double lip for a few months will, in my experience, give you a model that, if you can mimic the embouchure shape with the upper lip pulled in front of the teeth instead of underneath them, can permanently improve your approach. The next question is whether or not you will slip back into old habits (which you've described as destructive) or maintain the changes you've carried over from double lip. That's really a matter of conscious self-monitoring.
If double lip brings a noticeable improvement to your playing (as you seem to feel it does), you may feel differently about staying with it after a few months. When you say "I don't want to be a double lip player," I'm not sure what you mean. My experience is that other people can't tell if you're playing double lip or single lip, so it isn't a question of being somehow identified as a "double lip" or a "single lip" player, as if it were some kind of musical litmus test. If you're comfortable slipping back and forth between the two, you could play standing up with the upper lip against your teeth and sitting down with the upper lip under the teeth. Or, practice standing up for part of your practice time and build the muscles and lip pad up to a point where you can play standing comfortably. Or, if you find you can accomplish the same things reliably with a single lip embouchure after playing double lip for a period time, switch back. It's a question of comfort and control, but the answer may not be the same 6 months from now as it is today.
Karl
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-04-16 01:18
Please read Tony's linksas they cover much more in depth what I wish to say, however; I can simply add a bit from first hand experience myself.
The key to understanding the clarinet embouchure that it is a controlled "bite". No I know I have said the dreaded biting word, but some pressure is necessary contra the reed for the clarinet to sound. (The reeds natural vibrational frequency is much too high to excite the air already inside of the clarinet in a "functional" manner, thus exciting the standing wave. As clarinetists we must damped the vibration of the reed to bring it into a usable range to excite the air column.)
To answer your question.. "Is biting the root of all evil?" Yes and no. Too much jaw pressure can be counterproductive, while some level is necessary for the clarinet to function. Again- the dreaded biting word.
I myself play double-lip- albeit in a unique manner than any I have come across in my travels- but claim no superiority of double-lip (If you wish an in-depth description so be it, but I'll save the masses from reading about it unless needed).
Either manner, single and double, can provide equally successful results; and there are drawbacks to double-lip I must say (even as "employer" of the technique. i.e. If I am a bit out of shape, as I have been for a length of time due to some unforeseen circumstances, pitch stability will tend to suffer due to muscle atrophy. --After a 2 hours or so for me at this point in my re-building phase.)
However when in "fighting shape", this was not an issue (though I must repeat my "technique" differs from many others re. double lip due to the structure of my teeth/jaw/oral cavity.
-Jason
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-04-18 04:16
panther2 wrote --- "I just don't want to be a double lip player."
Well it's not for everyone, however I strongly feel it's something most players should have a strong knowledge base and practice a few scales everyday, just to build up the muscles for positive practice habits. For the advanced players and teachers it should be introduced to your students that bite. Sax players included. We have to teach about air pressure. It can surely be done. The lady with the Los Angeles Phill started with French made horns and while in the symphony I heard she switched to German horns. Her father, also at the LA Phill played German horns. That couldn't have been easy, but she did it. While at Rico I was lucky to meet her and play around with reed designs for her and tried to make some German reeds for her. Due to budget Rico didn't follow through, because of so few German players in the US.
If you can deal with getting the hang of playing with your upper lip muscles it may take a few years to be able to get all over the horn without biting the upper register and using air control support for your biting replacement. I repeat, it's very hard and it won't happen in a month or maybe take 4 or 5 years. Maybe never, but having the upper muscle strength development will surely help anyones sound. A player has to have upper muscle control for a great sound. When hearing people play I can tell (hear) when someone is biting and fighting to hit some of those high notes, even just to the F or the G. Forget about the high C or above. Not bragging here, just years of practice during the past 45 years or so of playing, but I can hit the high F above the high C. Well my brains fall out sometimes. I just put them back in and the players next to me in the symphony are all on hearing aids now and use ear plugs! hehe I never said it was a pretty sound!
I really wish a few composers would push their compositions a bit higher then the high C. If a player can't handle high C and above, well thats OK, play an octave lower and let some of the gifted students and the very talented pros take a wack at it. Someone can already do it - me, and I'm far far away from a touring pro, a recording pro, and way too old to take auditions for major symphonies. I really enjoy chamber orchestras and studio work. However, reeds play a big part and a really super mouthpiece, such as mine help make this possible. Tip openings and the curves and knowing how to adjust or make great quality reeds are the base (tools) for success. My mouthpieces are fairly close - 1.04mms and the reeds I use are the Vandoren 56 3.5+. I am working on MP openings around 1.11mm, which seems to be Bob Marcellus's opening when doing the Mozart. I've heard he could have used an opening of 1.13mm, but I haven't found any proof and that little bit wouldn't make or break a concerto!
Horns can also make a difference regarding biting. Although I didn't buy a Ridinour clarinet, I did test it for a short time and his horns are so easy to play in the upper register and in tune. Really great horns for the beginners to college level and maybe longer. The only exception in my opinion is for players in the major symphonies. Before I finish this statement, I think Tom can make adjustments to fit these players. For example, I bought 2 new Buffet r-13 clarinets the last 3 months and the first thing I had to do was get rid of the leaks and put cork pads on the upper registers. That was an added fee of course for the cork. Tom's horns won't need new pads. He already did the work. A pro may need to have some tone holes adjusted, but you have to do that with all horns because mouthpieces and barrels play a big part of this.
I enjoy playing double lip and after several hours of playing, perhaps 4 or 5 hours I have to go to single lip because the upper lip gets pretty sore. I find the sound quality much better using double lip, compared to a single lip player. I also find tonguing lighter and faster. I'm sure this is the form of my mouth cavity. Very fast passages, such as the Mendelssohn's Italian I find light flat tonguing and not using the tip adds a ton of speed. This may not work for everyone, but trying this with a double lip may help you a lot. A metronome can really help.
There are a few players that played double lip and on the average they sounded better then pretty much most single lipped players. Referring to people such as Gennusa and Harold up in Boston. I'm not positive about the player with the National Symphony. I forgot his name.
Anyway, times change in the music world, such as mouthpieces and instruments, so these changes may be the end of double lip players. I hope not.
Don't yell and scream at me for my views. (please!)
Read on a bit more. I know it's too long of a post, but I hope it will help at least the person that posted and with luck, many others. Sound is so friggin confusing.
There are of course many exceptions. However, I feel it's hard to find people with double lip playing having horrible sounds. Well at least in the orchestras and the Washington bands I was in.
So, long story short, try it everyday for at least a few minutes of practice, for several months, not just a week or a month, but perhaps the rest of your clarinet career, You see and feel a difference. It surely will help without damage to your single lip sound.
This was a long post, mainly letting fellow players know how some of us feel about double lip playing, including the very talented Tom Ridinour.
To this day, 45 years and counting, there is a tall mirror standing just to the right of my music stand. BUY ONE! Home Depot $20, maybe as low as $13. When the notes sound great look at the mirror, when bad look at the mirror. Soon you will find a comfortable evective position for both single and double lip players.
panther2 Hope this helps.
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