 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Guinness12
Date: 2012-03-19 01:59
Attachment: CIMG4138.jpg (165k)
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Attachment: CIMG4124.jpg (534k)
Attachment: CIMG4125.jpg (637k)
Attachment: CIMG4134.jpg (599k)
Can anyone help me identify this clarinet? I purchased this 8-key clarinet at an auction. It has no logo or any identifying marks that I can find, except for "VIII" scored in to the top of the wood at the joints (see photo). After doing some research it appears that 8-key instruments were only popular around 1820. The instrument is made of dark wood, and I don't know if the outside is the true color or has been stained ebony. The keys look like brass, but I couldn't be certain without polishing them. The keys used press-fit pins instead of screws (see photo). The male sections of the joints have what appear to be waxed thread wound around the wood to make a tight fit (versus cork). I've posted a number of pictures on this Photobucket album: http://s1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc391/Guinness12/Clarinet/
Any help identifying this instrument would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-03-19 13:48
I can't identify your clarinet, but one thing to be aware of when you're dating it is that retro-design was very popular around the end of the 19th century. For example, I own a clarinet in C with Mozart-era keywork, but I know for a fact that it was made much later, between 1884 and 1891, because the manufacturer's name and address are engraved on it and that manufacturer (C. Wallis and Sons) was only at that address with that company name during those years. Your pictures are excellent and I hope someone else can match the contours of those keys with a known maker.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Guinness12
Date: 2012-03-19 14:14
Thanks so much for the comments and insight! I certainly appreciate the advice not to date an instrument merely by a particular feature (8 keys, in this case). Thanks!
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2012-03-19 20:57
For what little it's worth, the only place I've seen those kind of pins used was on a late 19th century 12(I think)-key clarinet by Georg Krywalski of Teschen (now Cieszyn, Poland). The keywork looks a lot similar too! It doesn't look like 1820s keywork to me, I'd say it's a good bit later. What Lelia said!
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2012-03-19 22:38
I have a similar looking C clarinet with eleven keys, of similar design to yours. It has the same sort of pins holding the keys on, same thread wound tenons, and the same raised hole for C/F. It is labelled E. Riedl, Graslitz, Czechoslovakia. I understand Riedl was in business at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, and an instrument dealer thought my clarinet was made around 1920. A copy of a much earlier design.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Guinness12
Date: 2012-03-19 23:28
Chris / Alan - thanks VERY much for the observations and direction. I'll look in to both of these possibilities. Thanks! Cliff
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2012-03-20 01:06
Given that Graslitz and Teschen were about 300km apart it's likely that many small makers in the Austro-Hungarian empire were using these same materials and designs. E. Riedl is either Eduard (died 1925) or Ernst Karl (son of Eduard) who made instruments in Graslitz from 1924 until 1945. After WW2 he moved, like a number of others, to Winnenden in W.Germany. There was no Czechoslovakia until 1918 so an instrument so marked must be post WW1. Maybe somebody knows when exactly Graslitz became Kraslice, became Graslitz again, became Kraslice again.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-03-20 07:14
I sure wouldn't have wanted to start playing the clarinet with this horn!
It's really cool. You may want to fix it up, put cor on silver plate the keys and maybe a collector will pay big bucks for it. Then maybe not!!!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-03-20 13:17
>> It's really cool. You may want to fix it up, put cor on silver plate the keys and maybe a collector will pay big bucks for it. Then maybe not!!!
>>
If a collector knows the old clarinet was made with bare brass keys, then putting silver plate on them would be a mistake. That kind of drastic modification can't be fully reversed. It cuts the value (if any, of course) in half or even worse, as the guys on "Antiques Roadshow" keep on warning people who bring in their refinished antique furniture.
Usually old clarinets have already had corks or threads, pads, springs and other disposable parts replaced, so I don't worry about changing those to make the instrument playable. But I do have one old Buescher saxophone that I won't restore at all, because it seems completely untouched, with no wear of any kind. Even the pads appear to be original. The original owner apparently never learned to play it. I think it's worthwhile to keep something like that in fully original condition. I'd do the same with a completely virgin clarinet, but then I've never seen one of those!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-03-20 13:36
There have been some clever and not-so-clever fake antiques coming out of India. Is there any possibility that this is one of them?
Tony F.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-03-20 14:14
Tony F wrote:
> There have been some clever and not-so-clever fake antiques
> coming out of India. Is there any possibility that this is one
> of them?
>
I'm pretty sure this one is legitimate. Most of the Indian CSO's I have seen were copies of old Boosey & Co simple system clarinets and are made from hard rubber. This one is an even earlier design and is clearly made from wood.
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Author: Guinness12
Date: 2012-03-20 23:45
I'm certainly not an expert (hence my original inquiry), but I don't think it's a fake. It's indeed real wood, as there are hairline cracks in each of the sections, the inside is clearly wood, and it has wood grain that can be seen through the ebony stain (I assume). The pads look very well-worn (one is missing), and the underside of the keys, including the springs, show a lot of dirt and grime. From the condition I suspect this instrument hasn't been played in decades.
The other thing I found was that the reed is labeled C.G.Conn Ltd., Special, France. I assumed this was just a replacement reed, and that's probably still the case. But a Wikipedia search of C.G.Conn Ltd notes that he started importing French clarinets in 1885.
Other than the reed's label, I'm still puzzled by the absolute lack of identifying information anywhere on this instrument.
Thanks to all who've weighed in on the possibilities, as well as the suggestions regarding condition and options. I'm of the mind to get this in to a collectors hands as a display piece, and let them decide if they want to clean and/or restore this to working order.
Any other comments or suggestions are very much welcome.
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Author: Mark P
Date: 2012-03-23 00:20
I wouldn't spend too much time wondering about the lack of maker's marks. This was probably an inexpensive instrument when it was made and the name of whoever made it probably wouldn't have mattered to the purchaser. There might have been marks when it was new but over the years could have been worn down to the point of being invisible.
The reed being imported by CG Conn doesn't mean much either other than the fact that it might date the last active use of the clarinet to the first half of the 20th Century. Its an old reed, but there's no way you could say that it has been on that mouthpiece longer than the day before you bought it.
I have found an occasional hand cut reed on old clarinet mouthpieces.
Still a nice piece to display.
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