 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Guy
Date: 2012-03-15 03:52
I'm talking playing purely by ear, learning by employing play along CDs, YouTube, a few music books for fingerings, the odd instructional video, etc. What I have NOT done is learn to read worth a darn, or play with anyone other than an old neighbor (good on sax and clarinet).
My goals are to become proficient enough to hook up with a few town musicians or fellows at my golf club who used to play a variety of instruments in gin-joint settings, learning as I go. Imhave in mind fairly uncomplicated jazz/big band things. Or be able to play a nice tune, respectably well, at a company function.
Has anyone you know taken the crude, autodidact approach I'm talking of and learned to play well enough for it to be rewarding/worthwhile? And how did they do it?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-03-15 05:49
Well, many of the old New Orleans players learned this way. I don't think it's a question of whether it can be done. Your ear is your best teacher and so long as you have sounds in your "ear" (your aural imagination) to strive toward, self-teaching may get you to the goals you describe.
The real question is whether or not a teacher can help get you to those goals faster with fewer wrong turns and detours. In my own opinion the answer is that a good teacher can help you navigate the learning process more efficiently so you reach the level you describe more quickly. A teacher can help with equipment and basic approach and can help solve problems that you run into along the way. Many of the questions asked here on the BB concern problems that could be resolved in minutes by an experienced player hearing the symptoms first-hand.
Can you learn to play on your own? Sure, and if the important value to you is in the learning process itself, it may be a rewarding experience. If what you value is the end result of being able to participate in the kinds of settings you describe, you can probably get there faster with the help of a teacher. It doesn't need to be a conservatory professor, nor does it need to be an ongoing weekly or other regularly periodic arrangement. Just having an experienced player you can call on with a specific question whenever a problem comes up might be enough.
Karl
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-03-15 13:05
You could do worse than to stick around here for awhile, Guy. At your age you might not reach your goals going about it as you propose but you might pick up some ideas here that would help. I've not known anyone personally who has taken your approach but, hey, give it a whirl.
Bob Draznik
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-03-15 14:19
As someone who didn't have any real lessons (public school "lessons" don't count) until after having played for several years I would strongly advise you not to go down that route. The potential to develop bad habits that will limit your playing ability is very high and you will unwittingly reinforce those habits when you practice if you don't have anyone to correct you.
I recommend taking private lessons for a while to get a decent foundation and then joining a community band to get some experience playing with an ensemble.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2012-03-15 15:29
I agree with Steve G
There are lots of things that you can learn on your own but I think that a teacher is vital for the 'simple' things: embouchure, posture, breathing, air support etc. If your basics are not right then everything else will be an uphill struggle
I made the mistake of starting to learn on my own for 4 or 5 months. Not a catastrophe, but it meant that when I did get a teacher I had to spend 4 or 5 months unlearning all the bad habits
A teacher is of course really useful for all the 'difficult' things as well!
And as an adult learner, a good teacher is definitely a great way to increase the speed at which you learn
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2012-03-15 21:10
Guy,
You could try your route but there are things that you just will not learn with out either lessons of some sort and interaction with other players.
I am not sure bout your area but outside of private lessons, many cities have a chapter of what is called a :New Hoizons Band". They are adult beginner bands. We even have one withing the fold of the Mississippi Community Symphonic Band. They are a great resource for people who decide to take up a musical instrument in adulthood. If you can find one it might be worth joining and trying. weh have had several of ours "graduate" and now are playing with our community band and choirs.
I went to newhoriszonsmusic.org and serached in Conn. and found 2 groups
Location Name of Organization
Connecticut, Centerbrook New Horizons Band of the Connecticut Valley Shore
Connecticut, Noank Noank - Mystic Community Band
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-03-15 22:35
I'd agree with the previous poster concerning the "New Horizons" bands. When I returned to the clarinet after a 45 year gap it was via our local N.H. band. It has been a very enriching experience, and apart from the route of formal lessons and long practise I cannot think of a better way to make progress with the instrument. Of course, to a large extent this is dependent upon the skills and personality if the musical director, and we are fortunate in having one of the best. I still play with the band, and also play with another, more advanced community band. Within the N.H. band a number of small groups developed almost spontaneously, and we now have a flute choir, a brass choir and a jazz ensemble. I can't speak too highly of this path as a learning experience.
Tony F.
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2012-03-16 05:10
The most challenging students that I've taught over the years have been, without fail, those that have been playing for a few months or a couple of years "on their own", just enough time for serious bad habits to have taken deep root. Certainly, early jazz players did not often have formal lessons, but, believe me, they were learning constantly from more experienced players every day. Barring serious financial difficulties or a residence on the Bering Strait, my question to you regarding not taking lessons to learn an instrument properly from the beginning would be: "Why Not?"
AB
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2012-03-16 11:32
Hi,
As a career educator, I have always been impressed with the work of Edward Thorndike. He is the Father of Educational Psychology and I believe that the Law of Primacy and the Law of Effect apply clearly in Guy's situation.
I am a great fan of discovery and active learning but trial and error here when considering the results you might get (with respect to Thorndike's work) may not be quite right. Or as they say "it's hard to get the toothpaste back in the tube" or it is hard to break bad habits once learned (Law of Primacy).
You might find this interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6H7Ukp6To
HRL
Post Edited (2012-03-16 11:42)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-03-16 19:30
In rushing the grim reaper in an effort to get in my 10,000 productive practice hours in before abandoning this mortal coil, I worry a lot about efficient learning. Some personal observations.
I've been working with my current teacher for 7-years and have had my 17/6 replacement for my 19/7 for about 5-years. I STILL reach for keys and try to use fingerings that don't work without that Full Boehm instrument's extra keywork. I played a lot on that old horn --40 years ago, and those obvious habits are STILL there.
I've got a whole lot of other bad habits that greatly affect my playing that are not as obvious as inappropriate fingering.
As mentioned above, the fundamental thing about a clarinet is that you have to blow it to make it play. It turns out that there is a lot involved with "blowing well." If you don't blow well (support), the blasted thing just won't play. Breathing and blowing is a VERY BIG DEAL, and quite different from sticking the mouthpiece into your face and breathing out. Lessons needed, practice needed, reviews required.
Tonguing is also a big deal. More generally, tonguing as part of phrasing --coordinating blowing with the use of the tongue.
Other fundamentals (in addition to blowing and tonguing the horn) underlie good playing. Things like scales, arpeggio, scales in thirds, ... Whenever I have a problem with a fast moving passage, it is because I don't have the basics for that piece "in my fingers" or (more rarely) because the composer did something really trick (curses von Weber).
Just last week, still another fingering for G6 solved a difficult problem --and it took my teacher to point that out.
My teacher has the ability to know what's going on inside my mouth by listening. He knows better than I do where my tongue is, how open my pallet is, ...
I come down on the side of paying for good coaching, but I respect those who plod along, trying, erring, and bettering.
Its just that all of those bad habits and workarounds you'll invent as you do it yourself just limit you and slow down your learning.
Welcome aboard. Enjoy (most important).
Bob Phillips
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Author: Guy
Date: 2012-03-17 04:04
What wonderful, varied and sympathetic responses, and thank you all. Clearly, finding a teacher or individuals to assist really is the only way to go. It is the unavailability of teachers, the time, expense, inconvenience (shame on me, lol) and fear of plodding, paralyzing regimens lef tover from 4th-6th grade band classes that led me to hope against hope and pose the question.
With that, I'm intrigued in a global way by the many examples of self-taught individuals in so many walks of life who may actually have benefited from limited formal teaching. Einstein, Edison, Philo Farnsworth, many great writers and a host of extraordinary athletes come to mind. I wonder if Artie Shaw holds as perhaps the best example for clarinet. In reading many books/pieces by and about him, his learning path seems to have cut both ways. Formal teaching surely would have sped his progress in some areas, but in others--unusual fingerings known only to him, his strange remark that plastic vs. cane reeds made no difference to him, the unconventional way his fingers flew so far adrift from the keys while playing, his amazing ability to improvise, and several other arresting departures from the norm--I wonder if training would have narrowed his vision or confined him in some way. His case probably was a strange meeting of uncommon natural inclination with inhuman effort and sheer force of will, but it sure is interesting.
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