 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ttay1122
Date: 2012-03-13 07:42
I am in desperate need of projection. Right now I am using a David McClune mouthpiece, Rico Reserve classic 4 reeds, and a regular Rovner Dark. I'm pretty happy with my set up, until my reeds become 2 weeks broken in. Most of the reeds come right out of the box playing nicely, so I break them in gradually. Then after about 2 weeks I no longer have any projection with my reeds. The sound is fine, nice, and dark, but no matter how much air I use I can't seem to get past mezzo forte at most, unless I get a new reed out. I wonder if my lig isn't letting my broken in reeds project or what but it's driving me insane! ANYWAYS.
1. Are there any ligatures you would suggest for use to fix this problem?
2. Does anyone know of companies that have ligature trials?
I don't want to have to buy 20 ligatures to only want one. Any help is appreciated.
Taylor.
Post Edited (2012-03-13 07:42)
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Author: mvjohnso
Date: 2012-03-13 08:15
I would try either the Rovner Versa model ligature (remember when it was the Eddie Daniels) or the Olegature. The former being more flexible and allowing one to both change timbre (through the use of plates and flaps) and even helping with off balance reeds on occasion (putting up one flap). And, the latter IMHO being the better ligature. It is not flexible like the Eddie Danial's (in as much as you can change its configuration), but if you want the sound of fabric ligature with the response of a metal one it's the way to go. It is made with chain mail in the shape of a Rovner Dark. There are three drawbacks though: it costs a bit more ($80 vs. $30), it slides on mouthpieces (easily fixed by scoring or sanding your mouthpiece, and you have to buy a cap separately. Personally I think it's worth it and the response is great like a metal and you still get a dark sound.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-03-13 09:39
I don't understand 'two weeks broken in.' I break reeds in over the course of 3 days. After which they are pretty stable. The process, for me, is pretty simple: soak in water 2-3 minutes, play five minutes, put it away for the day. On the FOURTH day I have them (a full box of 10) sorted in numerical order (best to worst) and they pretty much stay that way.
Sounds more that your problem is the reeds become water logged (or something related to not taking some time up front).
And the Rovner LIGHT makes a better ligature for projection, but the problem you describe (sounding fine for two weeks) doesn't sound like one that could be caused by the ligature.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: ttay1122
Date: 2012-03-13 09:49
Well, I'm not sure how to explain my reed dilemmas but I usually break them in using a very similar process. I think I meant, two weeks after breaking them in and using them I start to struggle with projection. They are not waterlogged, I just keep them stored in reed cases in a ziplock with a Rico reed vitalizer(this is what my teacher finds best) so I think they are being stored fine. I usually just mark the heal of the reed for its playability.
Taylor
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-03-13 10:20
"Two weeks" is a spongy term - how many hours do you have in each reed?
Mine have a lifespan of about 30 hours of non-continuous use; I have had days where I played one from box to death within 18 hours (a long day, I admit). So, depending how much and how often you play them, you might simply have reached the end of their service life.
I agree with Paul - I don't think it's the ligature. (Else just clamp a match or two, or a paperclip etc parallel to the reed between ligature and bark and see if it makes a difference...)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2012-03-13 11:35)
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2012-03-13 11:43
Some suggestions:
It is not strange to have multiple ligatures to adapt your sound to e.g. different acoustic settings or different reeds. My tip: try the BG Super Revelation. It really adds something compared with a Rovner Dark.
However, what is your problem with playing 2 weeks on reeds an then replace them? 2 weeks may seem short but if you can easily replace them with newer ones then you have a good controlable 'reed roulation' process that is much prefered above playing months on the same single reed. So, just accept it is a fair option.
I think Vandoren reeds project better than Rico Reserve reeds in almost every setup. And may be Vandoren reeds last longer than the Rico Reserve reeds.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2012-03-13 12:34
Personally, I wouldn't think the band attaching your reed to the mouthpiece could make THAT much of a difference to your dynamic range. Given that it works for two weeks, and then doesn't, it also seems likely that the material that isn't working isn't the relative constant of your ligature.
I would look elsewhere for solutions - could be different reed, different strength, different mouthpiece.
Or perhaps the 2 week cut-off is a point where you have some seriously stable reeds, and the problem is how you play forte.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2012-03-13 13:34
I'd have to agree with all who have said the ligature probably isn't the issue here. From my experience, I sound how I sound with whatever ligature. I've used Bonade, BG Super Revelation, Rovner Light and Dark, Vandoren Klassik, and Rico H (based on the Harrison). The effect that each has on my tone or projection is miniscule at best; articulation response seems to be the biggest factor for me (with the Rico H being my current favorite).
What advice does your teacher have for you? He/she should be able to evaluate your situation better, since that person can observe your playing habits first-hand.
Joe W.
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2012-03-13 14:13
I agree with the above comments on the ligature not being the main problem.
You didn't sat what part of the country or what your climate is like year round. I use the RICO vitalizer packs also but I only use the 58% packs. I found the higher percentages to make the reeds unresponsive and dull sounding for where I live.
Robert
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-03-13 14:59
Perhaps you need to change out your mouthpiece. Our clarinets are acoustically similar and I can project far more than I see could on my r13s.
Consider trying the Vandoren M30, B40 lyre, and masters series. Actually try as many Vandorens as you can.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-03-13 15:40
Agreed with all the above. The ligature is the least consequential thing you can change. If your reeds feel dead and unresponsive with one, they will feel dead and unresponsive with another.
Two weeks is kind of a long life for a commercial reed, in my opinion, unless used very sparingly. Still, all things being equal I'd suspect that you're putting too much jaw or embouchure pressure on the reed. When new, they withstand the pressure and play well, but as they age and conform somewhat to the curve of the facing they lose that capacity and your embouchure restricts them from vibrating. I'd guess that pitch goes up, too.
It's a matter best taken up with your teacher.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2012-03-13 15:42
1) Your issue is primarily not a ligature issue.
2) You can do much better than the rovner.
3) Ligatures to try: Bay, Bonade, BG Silver or Gold traditional, BG super revelation
4) I'm not sure what model McClune you're using currently, but I disagree with the above post suggesting the most open Vandorens (M30, B40, Masters..etc.). None would solve your problem and would make your clarinet life more difficult due to the resistance inherent in such a wide tip opening. The compensations made to the design with these extreme tip openings to make them playable (lengthening the facing to what I would consider pretty extreme) compromise the mouthpiece, IMO.
5) I agree with David Blumberg about not biting, and I would bet dollars to reeds that this is the source of your "reeds only lasting 2 weeks" problem. If your mouthpiece is very open at the tip, you might be biting to compensate, especially with 4's. This would account for the lack of longevity of your reeds.
6) I wouldn't worry so much about whether your sound is very dark or very bright. If you have a reed and mouthpiece setup that allows you to play with minimal force (least amount of bite needed for basic function) then you will be free to do what you need to do musically and the sound will be much more organic. You'll still sound like you, but you'd be more flexible to change between styles and dynamics with clarity and fluidity.
Most of the clarinet community is somewhat obsessed with a dark sound. Many of those people also say that they want to sound like Marcellus. In my opinion, most people with this philosophy sound much darker than Marcellus ever did, and seldom have a sound that projects even over piano.
Also keep in mind that excess biting can cause problems with the jaw and throat. Anything that feels uncomfortable or forced is straining something unnecessarily.
Good luck!
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-03-13 18:47
Your mouthpiece could be too closed... I have a Gennusa I got from Ben Redwine a little over a year ago. The tone is marvelously dark, but it is resistant to the point that I have trouble playing a little more than mezzo forte on it. Ligatures don't change anything about it.
There are mouthpiece makers who can reface the mouthpiece for you if you decide to go that direction. Ben Redwine is one, Roger Garrett, probably Clark Fobes, and countless others. Have a professional do it, not a repair technician at a music store!
If you think it's not the mouthpiece, then it is probably the ligature. The Rovner Dark is indeed dark-- almost dead sometimes. The BG Super Revelation is great. The Vandoren Optimum would also be worth a try. It greatly improved my ability to project-- it made my setup a little too bright, but it could work well for you.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2012-03-14 04:07
A few years ago, I started using a Vandoren 5RV (13) with Vandoren Rue Le Pic 4 reeds. Like you, my reeds were great right out of the box, but I was going through reeds like water because it didn't take long for them to die on me. Once I went down to Vandoren Traditional 3 reeds last year, my projection opened up (that, and my current teacher working with me on breath support and air movement). My reeds were too stiff for the mouthpiece and I was working way too hard trying to make it work.
Why this was never brought to my attention while I was a music major in college I'll never know (and the 2 single-reed studio teachers I had at the time had DMAs). I couldn't understand why the orchestra conductor I was working with at the time kept telling me I needed to play louder while I felt like I was blowing till I was blue in the face (definitely turned red).
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: clairmusic
Date: 2012-03-15 04:03
Ligs are not always the issue, but they do make a difference of how the reed vibrates. I use the same reeds. I switched after 20 yrs of vandorens, but I am not to sure why they keep dying on you. You might want to try a 4+ and see if that helps at all.I switched to a spriggs lig about 5 yrs ago. It's all I use now. I've played on all of the ligs mentioned above, and the spriggs is the bet lig I've ever owned. The reed vibrates much quicker. It's a little expansive, but well worth it. Muncy music sells them. Good luck
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