 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CuriousClarinet
Date: 2012-03-03 02:53
Attachment: musicsample.jpg (27k)
At my last lesson I asked my teacher which fingerings he preferred to use for the E and F in the attached passage. He said he used his right hand for the F and both his left/right for the E. Although he admitted that it was because he just learned the fingerings that way when he performed the piece some 30 years ago.... Then my teacher starting talking about how interesting it would be to go survey all of the well known clarinetists out there to see which fingers they would use. And since I don't have access to any of the "big names" out there, the board is my next best option. So... what fingerings would you use?
For those that are curious/don't recognize it, the passage is a few measures from the 3rd movement of the Mozart Concerto (coda).
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-03-03 03:15
I don't see why anyone would need BOTH fingers for the 'E,' (other than German system where this is ALWAYS NECESSARY) but other than that I use the R for f/c whenever possible and L for e/b whenever possible. It seems to me that f#/c# might be more "controversial" so I'll just throw out that I prefer the L for that whenever possible.
For me these stresses help keep the finger confusion more orderly down there. As always though, outside of the Mozart it depends on where you are going AND where you are coming from of course.
................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2012-03-03 03:16)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-03 03:21
Well, I'm not a famous soloist but fairly well known. I always play, and teach, that passage an octave higher as it appears in a great many editions. I always felt it was better to play all the right notes an octave higher instead of changing the C to an F and play it in the proper octave as written for the basset clarinet. But to answer your question, if I was to play it as you do I would also play it as your teacher does because I always prefer playing the F in my RH and the E in my LH with the F key held down in the RH for most passages. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-03-03 07:17
I'd play that with both right little fingers forthe F and E if I had to. In reality I'd play it on basset clarinet.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-03-04 19:44
LIKE: MarlboroughMan's choice. Moving only the fingers of one hand reduces the coordination challenge. You have to move your right hand first, middle and ring fingers, so you might just as well bring your right pinky along with them.
I think that Ed Palanker's octave higher makes perfect sense as well.
Bob Phillips
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-03-04 20:20
That's pretty much what I said Bob, thanks for your vote of confidence. ;-)
Peter Cigleris
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Author: William
Date: 2012-03-04 22:46
Robert Marcellus played those notes (as written) an octave higher in his famous recording with the Cleveland Orchestra--and that's how I do it. However, if I were to play the low notes as written, I would use the conventional fingerings (alternating right & left lf's) and avoid playing the F & E 3's with the rh little finger. Just seems easier.........
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-03-11 01:44
Right for the low F, and both for the low E. That keeps the motion in the same hand, and then the transfer to the left, then back to the right. Ergonomically makes more sense to use both pinkys.
But yeah, that low version is the easy version for what can be tricky, but worth the trouble.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-03-11 13:47
To your teacher's idea about polling the "well-known" players about this, I think even before the increasing use by major players of basset clarinets, you would have found few of them playing the version you're asking about. I think the clarinetists in all of my pre-basset recordings use the octave-transposed version (which goes back and forth over the break and causes most students conniptions). Gigliotti played a different version in the last performances of this concerto I heard him do, a number of years before he retired. As I remember, he played the low octave but replaced the F (which doesn't really fit the harmony) with another C, so 3 Cs in a row (the 2nd and 3rd articulated lightly to separate them).
So, I don't think most of the "well-known" players would be able to tell you how *they* play the passage, because most of them don't play that version at all. FWIW, when I *teach* the passage, I generally let the student use the fingering that's most comfortable and comes out most consistently. My first inclination (to differ from most of the opinions given so far) in this or any similar passage would be to use the right hand for the whole passage, but if using left E (with or without the F key added) works better for a student, I'd never insist on changing it.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-03-11 15:24
Ah! Thanks for that. I have a off-the-air dub of it somewhere but finding it was more than I wanted to tackle.
Karl
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Author: avumback
Date: 2012-03-11 21:52
I use and agree with the same fingering that ED submitted. Holding down the f key when playing e (low register) makes for a more clear sounding e tone on my clarinet. It may be the pad height distance isnt perfect on my clarinet! Im not sure if it is common on other Bb clarinets. Like Paul said, the e/f fingering depends on where you come from and where you are going and I think, the performance of you and your instrument.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2012-03-11 23:28
I'd probably keep it all in the right hand unless it's so fast that I'd have difficulty doing that. But I'd probably take the same approach as said above by those who said RH pinky for all of it.
BTW, that's a new thing for me, and especially in a passage like this, keeping everything in one hand would make it easier to keep a steady rhythm.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-03-12 03:40
For this passage, the only reason for using LH or both LH and RH in preference to RH alone would be a clarinet with a poorly adjusted crow's foot. Properly adjusted, the RH E/B key should close everything and is more efficient in this example. If you had to tremolo E-C wouldn't you play RH?
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-03-12 17:32
I tried this passage the other day just to see what I did and I prefer F on the right and E on the left. After all, that means that you can just let both little fingers hover over the keys when you're not actually using them. I find that, for me, this gives a smoother, easier performance than by moving the one finger for both notes. I'm sure it's something where different players may have different peferences or abilities though.
In terms of going up the octave, you could argue that, if you don't have a basset clarinet, the bottom octave version is nearer to the original. After all, Stadler was known as something of a chaulmeau register specialist.
Vanessa.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-03-12 19:23
I would tend to agree with you, but you then have to find a solution to the low C problem. The F that Bellison and, I guess, others after him put in its place subtly (or not) changes the harmonic context. The original (at least the commonly accepted one) has everyone who is playing (violins and viola) on an A (doubled at 3 octaves) and the harmony for the entire 1st half of the measure strongly implies a static A major (tonic, at that point). The harmonic rhythm really moves in dotted quarters. But putting a D (clarinet F) on that beat against the As in the strings absolutely changes the chord at that point to a D (subdominant but with no third). It's easy on the ear but enough of a change to have driven editors to look for other solutions that keep the low C (concert A). The Fischer (Bellison) edition (a 20th century publication for Bb clarinet - most likely intended for students) I grew up with until I bought the Breitkopf and later the Barenreiter editions is the oldest one I know that uses the substitute F.
Karl
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The Clarinet Pages
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(its somewhere, but I do remember the octave switch)
