 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-03-08 07:51
A funny thing happened to me last night. The orchestra I'm in is doing Mahler 1 and I'm playing 4th clarinet (all E flat except for a couple of bars of B flat at the end of the third movement). The instrument I'm using has been very kindly lent to me by a friend who has two E flats and it's her "second best", an Olds which are little known this side of the "pond". Well, last week I was getting comments from the flutes and the other clarinets that the altissimo seemed very flat so I did a bit of experimenting and found that it was pretty much bang-on a whole semitone flat from about E above the stave up which comes up quite a bit in that piece if you don't know it. Therefore, up to a point, problem solved - I'm just going to finger a semitone higher in those passages!
Weird or what?
Vanessa
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-03-08 12:39
Not really. Eefers tend to flatness in this register, especially in the hands of Bb players who haven't logged much time on them.
Most common fix for the E and F in that register is to add the RH sliver key to bring the pitch up.
As for Mahler 1 specifically, you'd do well to get Peter Hadcock's book of Eb Orchestral excerpts just for the alternate fingering chart that's in it. The fingering for the high F# to G# trill in that book is great.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-08 13:05
I believe an Olds is a student model clarinet, at least it was with the saxes years ago, assuming it's the same company. Marlins advice is very good, it is a common problem for a Bb player. Sometimes a different mouthpiece helps that problem or even a different barrel but it can only help not solve. Besides the sliver key to raise some of the high notes adding the G# side throat tone key will raise the pitch as well and even using the break C#-F# key instead of the Eb-Ab key might help. There are many other fingerings for those high notes that work very well on the Eb clarinet. I have a flingering chart on my website, some of which will work very well for the Eb as well. One time we were doing a piece in the BSO by Veresse and I was playing the Eb part because we were doing a split orchestra concert and I was playing bass and clarinet in that program already. The piece had a high G# that had to be in tune with someone else and I could not get the pitch high enough so of course I played a high A instead and it was perfect, I just relaxed a bit on it instead of trying to "lip" it up to the A pitch. It is a problem even on a good Eb clarinet. By the way, it's sort of a tradition in the 3rd mov't to switch the Eb parts with the 3rd-bass part so you're playing the top voice but if she has the better instrument, perhaps you should leave it as is. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-03-08 16:47
Thanks for your comments, Merlin and Ed.
Yes, I'm not experienced on E flat but then again, whilst I am very grateful to have been lent any instrument to play the piece on, a Tosca/R13/Recital it aint (on the other hand, I know, a bad workman blames his tools). There may well be a bit of all these factors at play here. However seem to have found a way round the issue which works for me at this point on that instrument. If I can ever afford to buy my own E flat, obviously, intonation at the top would be an issue I would consider carefully when choosing and work on once I'd got the instrument. An E flat player I play with quite frequently is often very flat although he is a pretty good player in a lot of ways (he is rather elderly so issues of chops or even hearing may be coming into it) and I know that intonation on E flat is a different ball game to B flat.
Ed, I had been told about the swapping parts thing - I have not yet discussed or tried it with the other player but I think we should experiment in rehearsal and see what we feel comfortable with and what sounds right. Always enjoy your posts which seem to me to be full of a lot of good sense and experience.
Thanks again.
Vanessa
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-03-09 02:00
It's one of those horns that require a good ear and a flexable jaw and lips. It sure is a lot of fun to play. Also it's pretty hard to find one that does play in tune. It's sort of like hearing 2 or 3 piccolos trying to play in tune. Won't ever happen.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2012-03-09 16:50
The other problem with playing with the flutes and piccolos is that they tend to go SHARP when you are going flat, exacerbating the problem. You might try practicing the parts with the piccolo to get your fingerings in tune. The high G (concert Bb) is the hardest to get together. I did this last year when I did the Mahler 1.
On some horns players find that playing a half step up is a bettter way to be in tune. That may be the best way to get your horn to play in tune. If you do that don't put the Eb/Ab key on to bring the pitch down a bit.
Good luck. It is SUCH a COOL piece.
Eefer guy
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-03-10 04:52
I would say on top of everyone's great advice, if you're considering playing Eb more often or know you will, a great mouthpiece is extremely crucial. I would recommend the B40, since that is what I play on, or the custom ones made by Clark Fobes, Gregory Smith, Richard Hawkins, or Walter Grabner. There are others too but I've had success trying all four of those makers' Eb mpcs. I like my B40 because of how easy the high notes come out. It may be a little brighter than some others, but really, it's an Eb clarinet. As long as your high notes come out, and in tune, that's all that matters really, imo. I recommend definitely looking into a good, well-tuned mouthpiece.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2012-03-12 00:37
I played Mahler 1 last year, and I had some difficulty with the intonation. My Eb plays pretty well in tune, but the orchestra was going quite sharp and it was particularly bad in the 4th movement. I used a product called "EZO", which can be found in pharmacies, that I molded to my bottom teeth, and it gave me a lot more room to get sharper. There is a section where you have to play high F# to above the staff A# in whole notes, I still had issues getting the F# high enough- Until I bit down and ble my brains out-came out beatifully in tune, but the foundation of the rehearsal space began to crumble- the string players were REALLY ticked off, giving me dirty looks because those F#s were going through their ears like an ice pick- I looked at the conductor, who is staring at me, salivating, motioning for me to give him more-and I did!! And the string players continued to scowl at me but the conductor loved it. That will teach them to stop going sharp.
What works well for me for the F#/G# trill in the fourt movement (with picolo), is to blow a high F# using an overblown side Bb, and trill to an open G- I cant remember if I left the register key down or not, but left the rh hand side key down from the Bb-really nice trill fingering for me on my Eb.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-03-12 13:08
Thank for all the help guys!
Lots of ideas I will try.
Vanessa.
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