 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-02-26 20:02
There is much bashing of alto clarinets on this Board and in the real world as well. There seem to be a few theories as to why this is.....here are a few....
1. Because alto clarinet players are sometimes Bb soprano clarinet players who "couldn't cut it"
2. Because most alto clarinets are student models that may not have been high quality to begin with, and are likely poorly maintained by schools that own them, and generally sound not so great.
3. The stigma that owning your own alto clarinet is the definition of "nerd"
4. Because alto clarinets shouldn't exist (because the are redundant, awful, or unnecessary)
5. Because there is little decent repertoire written for them in bands, and nearly nil in orchestra.
Others? The derision is so universal, I'm sure that there are more. But, is this a clarinet that just hasn't had a fair shake? I mean, if there were quality instruments, quality players, and quality parts in quality repertoire....would it all turn around?
Full disclosure -- I have the "opportunity" to purchase a vintage wooden open hole alto clarinet for next to nothing, and I'm trying to decide if the horn has really just been given a bad wrap and if it would be worth exploring (just for fun....but who knows where it could go).
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-02-26 20:18
The biggest problem with alto clarinet is that there aren't a whole lot of opportunities to use it since the repertoire is fairly limited. Since the instrument isn't very popular it is doubtful that this will change any time soon and composers will be less likely to write for it. I wouldn't money in an alto unless I knew that I would be playing it enough to justify the expense.
If you do want to get that open-hole alto make sure you try playing it first. The open hole models are uncomfortable for many people to play which is why a lot of alto clarinets are plateau-keyed models.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-26 20:27
Buy it. If you don't like it, you can still give it to me. :-)
I think the truth is a combination of all the points above, with #5 probably being the fatal blow. No good repertoire means no good players wanting playing it, means no good playing it, means uninteresting instrument for a composer, ...
This video might make your decision a bit easier...
--
Ben
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Author: Joel K.
Date: 2012-02-26 22:11
Join a clarinet choir and you'll get plenty of opportunity to play alto!
Percy Grainger was a friend of the alto clarinet in his band pieces.
Joel K. (Los Angeles Clarinet Choir)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-27 00:57
I'm currently playing alto clarinet in a pretty good clarinet choir. I'm sort of the utility guy in this group; in the past I've played bass, Bb soprano, and EEb contra-alto depending on their needs at the time. While alto would not be my first choice of instrument, I do enjoy playing it. I still haven't gotten the tessitura (range of pitch and timbre) in my head as I have with all the other clarinet sizes, so that when I play alto I'm never quite sure in advance what's going to come out! Keeps things interesting, I must say......
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-02-27 06:15
>> The derision is so universal <<
Not really. Never heard of it other than on this forum.
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-02-27 06:18
Point #4 is untrue, though there exist otherwise reasonable people who actually believe that the alto size of clarinet is inherently inferior. It's actually my favorite size, though I get to play a lot more contra alto because mostly I play with folkies who don't want a horn section but do want a bass line.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2012-02-27 09:24
Obtaining an alto clarinet in an effort to explore the instrument and have some fun is a perfectly valid reason for getting one. Go for it!
It leaves me scratching my head to consider that as artists, we're supposed to embrace the notion of art for its own sake, yet so many who practice our art categorically dismiss musical expression facilitated by instruments such as the alto clarinet.
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-02-27 09:30
Thank you all for your responses. Great perspectives....so perhaps the dislike isn't as intense as it may have appeared on the surface. By the way, I'm not arguing that all of the points listed are true, I'm merely stating that these points seem to make up the bias against altos.
I'm also noting that there may be a bit of an upswing of interest in basset horns in the past several years (e.g., more repertoire including them, some upscale/quality horns available from larger makers, etc.) that could be further distancing altos from the musical mainstream (i.e., basset horns filling the space that could have been occupied by altos). Any thoughts?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-27 09:44
Basset Horn vs Alto means $$$$$$; not every ensemble is willing to shell out big bucks for a BH while the Alto in the storage room is gathering dust.
I am sure that an arrangement that involves a meaningful Alto part has a broader potential audience than one that demands a Basset Horn.
--
Ben
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-02-27 18:48
>>3. The stigma that owning your own alto clarinet is the definition of "nerd"
>>
One thing that's going on here is that several of us who play alto clarinet and like it a lot put on that negative attitude as a joke. I sometimes refer to my alto clarinet as my "nerd credential," for instance. It's shorthand for "Yeah, I play alto clarinet. What's it to ya?" Snobs who think alto clarinets are only for losers can go chew their reeds.
(Mine's a pro-quality wooden Selmer and imho as an amateur, it's an excellent-quality clarinet. I've played two other altos, one of them an ancient school instrument in horrible condition and the other, the replacement for the atrocious one, a new Bundy that was a decent school-owned clarinet.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-27 20:00
The very same clarinet choir I mentioned a few posts up has, along with myself on alto clarinet, two basset horn players (one of whom is the group's leader). They have very expensive Wurlitzer Reform Boehm instruments. I would maintain (bragging only a bit) that I sound better than both of them on my ex-eBay 1950s hard rubber Kohlert alto clarinet, and as evidence I would submit that when there are solo parts I'm usually tasked with playing them. The point is, I'm not sure there's much added musical value in basset horn over alto clarinet, but there sure enough is a huge cost difference. In this example, about 100-to-1 (around $10,000 for the basset vs. about $100 for my alto clarinet).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-27 21:38
Attachment: ycl-631 007.JPG (768k)
Oh no! I just realised I own four alto clarinets - two old Leblancs all in bits, a semi-playable Bundy and a fully operational Yamaha which I've added a LH Eb lever and floor spike to. What does that say about me?
Maybe owning two basset horns, an Eb and low C bass will reinstate some credit!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2012-02-27 23:43
Interesting this should come up while I am revising a band piece I wrote a few years ago. The original had an alto part, but in my revision I have pretty much decided to eliminate it since so few bands use them anymore and so few newer band pieces include an alto part. The part I wrote simply doubled another instrument elsewhere in the mix. What's your vote, should I dump it, or leave it in?
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-28 00:38
I'd say keep the alto clarinet part in there as it is, but also offer an alternative/optional part on another instrument should no alto clarinet be available. And if an alto clarinet is available, specify the alto part isn't to be doubled by another player (unless there happens to be two alto clarinets!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-02-28 00:39
Thanks again for your thoughts. For the record, I'm not saying the "theories" in the OP are true, I'm just documenting them as stuff I've heard that may have an impact on the current state of alto clarinet-dom.
I'm also not advocating for basset horns (which, yes, are frighteningly expensive), just observing that they seem on an upswing (from a small base, I'll grant, but more attention today that in the past).
Also, I purchased a wodden Kohlert Winnenden from that auction site yesterday, and I'm looking forward to seeing what it can be refurb'd into (so thanks, Mr. Spiegelthal for your comments....I'm even more excited about the purchase now).
Finally, Mr. Gibson, please leave in the alto clarinet part. Perhaps double it with a basset horn part. Maybe even write a 2nd Bb Bass Clarinet part that can play the alto part if the alto clarinet isn't available.....
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Author: davyd
Date: 2012-02-28 01:49
"... nearly nil in orchestra." Has the alto clarinet ever been used in orchestra? (The bass clarinet part in Gershwin's Cuban Overture is mostly on the high side. IIRC it would lie better on alto.)
I concur with Chris and Bradford: leave the alto clarinet part in, but see to it that any exposed lines are cued or doubled somewhere.
For 2 semesters in college, I played alto clarinet in the clarinet choir, and in the concert band in pieces in which it was important, otherwise staying on 2nd Bb. Good times ...
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2012-02-28 02:01
I played alto clarinet in the wind ensemble during my 3rd and 4th years in college. I think the conductor was surprised that it sounded as good as it did (or else he would've switched me back to Bb). I would've stayed on it my 5th year, but the bass clarinet player graduated and I moved down to bass.
In those 2 years, I think there were only 3-4 pieces that didn't have alto clarinet parts. In those cases he had me play the 2nd alto sax part on alto clarinet (and an Eb contra part for one; needless to say it was in the wrong octave, but it worked out ok). If I remember correctly, there was some stuff in Philip Sparke's "Dance Movements" in the alto clarinet part that I didn't hear doubled anywhere.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-28 06:21
Someone who owns an Alto Clarinet is a Nerd.
Someone who owns a Basset Horn is a Posh Nerd.
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-02-28 13:35
davyd: according to wikipedia (yes, I know....) in their blurb on alto clarinet:
The alto clarinet band part remains in a wealth of 20th century literature. An important orchestral example is Igor Stravinsky's Threni.[8]
Joseph Holbrooke seems to have liked the instrument. He wrote an elaborate part for alto clarinet in his Symphony No. 2 Apollo and the Seaman.[9][10] Holbrooke's The Wild Fowl, written in 1912, is an episode from his opera The Children of Don, Op 56, for wind instruments only,[11] including a part for alto clarinet.
So, yeah....it's "nearly nil." I'll go with "completely nil" if we can't find anyone who has played the pieces listed ever in their lifetimes. Threni anyone? Anyone?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-28 15:33
Hi Eric,
Yes, it's the same guy, and afraid I can't agree with you about his playing.
[Off-topic alert] BTW I was acquainted with Charles Stier many years ago, he was a grad student at U. of Md. when I was an undergrad, we played in the clarinet choir there together one year. He's a hell of a nice guy and a terrific player, I have one of his CDs where he's playing on his Reform Boehm Wurlitzer.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-02-28 16:30
LOL...it's a small world, Dave. Come to think of it, there probably aren't more than one or two degrees of separation between any of us on this board.
Agreed on Charles Stier. One of the best guys you'll ever meet--a rare combination of open-hearted towards others and tenacious in his personal pursuit of artistry. Some of the recordings you mentioned are now available through his website:
http://www.cherryvalleymusic.com/store/page6.html
[note: Charles is a good friend and my business partner in WCA, but I don't profit at all from any sales of his recordings--this is just a whole hearted endorsement of some fine clarinet playing]
As for Herr Basset, you hear a whole lot more of him than I do...I was just a bit surprised...I've only heard good things about his playing.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: davyd
Date: 2012-02-28 18:36
@BradfordLloyd: IMSLP has scores to both of the Holbrooke pieces. They call for basset horn in F rather than alto clarinet in Eb. Do the sets of parts include alternate parts for the Eb instrument?
Boosey rents the set for Threni; their specifications call for bass clarinet.
So it's not looking good for alto clar in orchestra, but perhaps someone here knows otherwise.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2012-02-28 22:10
In the community band that I play with we have an alto clarinet that one of the Bb players was using and usually on the older Band litature that we were playing there would be parts. Like others have stated there are several promenant arrangers for the horn Grainger always comes to mind. The Clarinet choir that we stated has been ordering music from around the web and I do have to say that just about all of the "Choir" pieces will have parts written for Alto Clarinet, Basset in F which are doubled on a 5th Bb part.
So there is alot of music out there you just have to dig in a more specialized area which Choirs are highly suited for as said before.
I originally owned a Conn alto, I really liked it, A dear friend gifted me a Leblanc that played rings around bou old conn in intonation and layout. With a good MP they can be beautiful instruments to play. Those of us who have them love to bring them out. other despise the just the same. I always tell people to try them they are fun and can be found for realativly cheap prices epsecially of you are wanting to noodle around on one.
Basset Horns are another beast altogether which I also am proud to have in my possesion do to the same dear friend. It is another horn that is a joy to play and the tone is amazing and rich. I am in heaven playing on a Basset. Mozart Requium here I come!
As for being a clarinerd for having the alto, wait until you ave Eb sop all the way to BBb, then they think you are just plain crazy!
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2012-02-28 22:56
I bought an alto and a bass on eBay for about $500. I traded the alto (a nice Marigaux in rough shape) to a tech (he is still active on this DB) for a repad on the bass.
I made a good deal as I have a terrific Olds Emperor (Vito stencil) bass clarinet that has been really "souped up" by a local tech.
Never shed a tear over my swap. Everyone got a good deal.
HRL
PS My current #1 bass is a Marigaux that plays great.
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2012-02-29 13:33
Lots of good stuff in this thread. I am a proud alto clarinetist...I love everything about the horn. It's probably my favorite of all the clarinet family (I think for me, it's even more fun that basset horn). John G....write the part for alto...give it some solos, take advantage of its truly unique sound.
I own two ebay altos...a selmer and a yamaha. Both took a little bit of work, but they both play incredibly well now. Anybody on the fence about buying an alto...I say go for it. Get yourself in a good clarinet choir and you'll never regret it.
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Author: jesslin
Date: 2012-03-04 00:27
Funny thing. I'd never met an alto - we either didn't have or didn't need it in high school, and I haven't been in a band until just recently when I joined the community band. In the middle of a piece, the director laments, "if only someone played alto clarinet..." Mind you, this was my first day in the band, and maybe a month after picking up the Bb again, after playing bass most of high school :D But of course I raised my hand - if they had one to lend, I'd gladly play 'utility', never mind I'd never touched one. How hard could it be?
...Yeah. Harder than I thought, easier than I feared. One of our pieces is 'Aria', which has an alto solo line all through. It's kind of scary hanging out there, but the sound is beautiful, even on the meh-quality Selmer I'm borrowing. If I can get one for the right price, I can absolutely see adding an alto to the collection for future. There don't seem to be a lot of dedicated alto-only parts, but the reinforcement they give to low clarinet or sax lines can be pretty key if you're in a casual band like I am. It's not a required instrument by a long shot for the average band, but it really can play a good part.
And it beats being yet another 2nd clarinet
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-03-05 19:07
"Aria" by whom? And what community group are you playing with in Vernon Hills?
Any alto solo (and a group/conductor that encourages/seekes it out) has to be worth exploring!
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