 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2012-02-19 19:09
Back from a spell away from the BB
....Well down the recent "Morales' neck strap" thread, Bob Phillips said he keeps his neckstrap on while swabbing the instrument. The inference was that he did that from top to bell due to the neckstrap restriction, rather than what he would have done otherwise, ie from the bell up.
Hmm, I did the "bell up" swabbing for 30 yrs until an oboist friend did that and got the blighter incontrovertibly jammed using this "bell up" strategy, the night before a big orchestral concert... She tried, I tried, everyone in the ww section tried..some quite adventurous in our efforts...eventually for safety, it had to make an 80 mile round trip for an instrument technician to extricate said highly compressed swab from the top of the top joint.
This instantly converted all the ww section (flutes excluded of course!) to swab from reed to bell (so to speak).
Now before anyone says... "yes but the oboe bore is much smaller than the clarinet"...... of that I am fully aware.... but the principle is the same..clarinet swabs are more bulky.
Just a tip for those who have never (yet) had a swabjam.... it's not pretty and is a hummer to sort.... prevention is the best sort of medicine....
Please NEVER swab from bell up..... it may catch you out one day and just before an important solo!!
Bob T.
BobT
Post Edited (2012-02-22 05:41)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-02-19 19:27
I prefer still to swab from the bell.
The bell provides a funnel like entry to the bore whereas swabbing from the top requires the swab to compress over the sharp profile of the barrels top bore, causing over time rounding and wear.
Just take sensible precaution to make sure there is no tangle or knots in the swab as it enters the bell and in event of any problem stop pulling right away.
Some swabs are provided with cords at both ends to allow it to be pulled back.
However in 55+ years I have never personally found a problem with swabbing starting at the bell.
Yes over the years I have removed a few stuck swabs from customer's oboes and clarinets, always caused by having tangles or knots in the material and exacerbated by frantic attempt to force it through.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-02-19 19:30
I have been swabbing bell up for the almost 13 years I have been playing clarinet. Though that's no where near as long as you have, I have only gotten my swab stuck 1. by not paying attention to if the swab was fully unraveled before putting in the instrument, 2. using those gawd-awful cotton swabs that are made way too big for the clarinet bore. Ever since I switched to silk swabs, I've never, EVER gotten my swab stuck in the clarinet going bell up. I'm a little confused. You said you had been swabbing bell up for 30 years. Did you ever get your swab stuck too many times during that span. In my opinion, if you swab from barrel down, you're just putting moisture into places that don't need more of it. One big reason why the upper joint uses different pads is because they're more water resistant. Granted that isn't the only reason, but that is one of them. When you go barrel down you're dragging more moisture to the bottom of the clarinet, which doesn't need more, and you risk wetting the pads that were dry down there in the first place. To each their own, but I disagree with your statement.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-02-19 20:31
I'm a top-down swabber.
For decades I was bell-up, but then I came across a blog that suggested top-down to avoid water problems in the tone holes. Can't remember which blog, but the reasoning was that if you swab bell-up, you're actually bringing water back up the bore and increasing your chances of water in the tone holes.
Swabbing top-down has virtually eliminated all gurgling problems.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-02-19 20:40
I have heard from others that swabbing with the barrel up can lead to a greater chance of the swab getting tangled around the register tube, but I honestly don't know. As Norman so rightly said, do be sensible about it-- get rid of any knots in the string part of the of the swab and try to steer clear of the register tube. I've always been taught to swab with the bell up because of what Clarimeister said pertaining to moisture flow, but I know clarinetists that do it the other way. Whatever method works best for someone, then so be it.
I'm compulsive about swabbing, so I actually do it both ways (bell up first, then barrel up). That's just me though.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2012-02-19 23:02
Many new oboe swabs have draw strings at both ends. If it gets stuck just pull it back out the way it went in. Years back I had a swab remover made. It's just a screw mounted on a brass rod.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: pk
Date: 2012-02-20 12:13
I generally take it apart and swab piece by piece, and dry off the tenons and sockets. How do you feel about mouthpiece swabbing?
Pete
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-02-20 13:22
use only silk and help avoid problems thereby.
richard smith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-20 13:34
Oboe bores are conical and narrow to under 4mm at the top - clarinet bores are largely cylindrical over their entire length and widen very slightly at the top to around 15mm so the chances of a pullthrough of the correct size getting caught are very low. The speaker tube is the only real obstruction and a pullthrough of the correct size should run past it if pulled through slowly. That's the important factor - pulling it through s-l-o-w-l-y!
Only if the pullthrough has doubled up on itself or if there's a knot in the cord will it get caught in an oboe's top joint - knots in cords aren't a problem for clarinets as the bore is so wide, but if the pullthrough is too large or not properly unravelled before use, that increases the risk of it getting caught on the speaker tube.
I've always used the pullthrough from bell to barrel as that's much easier than fart-arsing around trying to get the string in through the top (ditto with oboes) and always pull it through the bore slowly and then repeat the process to be sure the majority of condensation has been absorbed by the pullthrough. Then take the joints apart and dry the sockets with a piece of kitchen towel, then wipe the keys down and put it in its case.
To keep the pullthrough flat, I fold it in half, then half again, then roll it up and wind the cord around it so it will open out flat again when I next need to use it during and after playing. While it's wrapped up I store it in the spare compartment in the case or in the bell. http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/07.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2012-02-20 14:27
And if you do get it 'stuck', don't try to push it back out--it will just become impossibly jammed. Rather, use a small screw driver and work it slowly backwards via one of the tone holes nearest the bottom of the swab. It will take a little time, but works every time. No need to got miles to a repair shop, just a little careful effort is all it takes.
fwiw--I'm a bottom to top swabber and have dislodged many a swab over the years.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2012-02-20 14:54
RE: pk's question on mouthpiece swabbing:
I use an altered Wurlitzer micro-fibre swab for the mouthpiece after each time playing. Maintaining the 'diamond' shape of the cloth, I cut it down to a better mouthpiece size, then remove the weight, clipping the chord to make it "pointy" and easier to slide through the mouthpiece.
I tried this with a silk swab, but it wasn't substantial enough. The micro-fibre works much better for me.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-02-20 15:08
Thanks, William, for that tip. I switched from cotton to a Doctors silk swab a year ago, and have managed to get it stuck twice ( yesterday was the most recent!) But as others have observed, it's always when I get in a hurry and didn't check to see that it was wadded at the end when I started swabbing. When I'm careful it goes through with ease (bell first).
Returning to the first post, regular strap users report they're easy to disconnect and reconnect quickly, so I don't understand why someone would swab a clarinet barrel first just because of the strap, or even leave it connected in the first place, regardless of preferred swabbing method. I'm assuming this is swabbing in the middle of playing, because if the clarinet were going to be put away it would be disconnected anyway. Wouldn't it be faster to disconnect the strap before swabbing and reconnected it, no matter which end one chooses to swab from?
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-02-20 16:19)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-02-20 18:27
As long as you "open" the swab before placing it in the bell it's not a problem at all. I've been doing it forever and have never had a problem. Just look to see that it's not bunched up before pulling. Doesn't take much effort to do that, like just look. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Dick
Date: 2012-02-20 18:39
Just a story - 50+ years ago I got the swab stuck in the bore with my very first clarinet, before I had even played a note. I was trying to become familiar with all the necessary routines, etc., and was practicing pulling the cloth through (bell to barrel, fwiw). It got stuck on the register tube and was a real bear to remove.
Dick
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-02-20 18:59
Yes, silk swabs are wonderful. They're well worth the money, and rarely get stuck.
I once tried to help someone free up a swab stuck in his oboe, and was unsuccessful. It had to be taken to a repair shop. As others have mentioned, though, oboes are a bit different from clarinets.
I've always been a bottom-up swabber. On the rare occasions when my swab gets stuck on the register key post, I grab the fabric that is sticking out from the top of the upper joint and start twisting carefully. It has always worked for me.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2012-02-20 20:18
Hey I'm glad I came back.... a wee bit of controversy never did anyone any harm and we get good, light hearted tips into the bargain. Thanks for contributions.
Bob T
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-20 21:51
One way to be certain your pullthrough is opened out before pulling it through is to drop the string down the bore and then pull it until the pullthrough enters the bell by about half its length. Then let the remainder of the opened up pullthrough drape evenly around the outside of the bell to be sure it is opened up fully and then begin to draw it through (slowly).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JBOverture
Date: 2012-02-21 08:22
Rico Microfiber swabs are super absorbent and have one feature that surpasses any other swabs Ive seen; the addition of a second length of cord at the top of the diamond.
No matter which way you go, if it ever gets stuck, take the top joint out and there is a handy cord to grab to pull it out backwards.
Just fit a piece of string to the top corner of any pull through and problem solved
JB
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Author: beejay
Date: 2012-02-21 08:37
I keep a simple crotchet hook in my case for emergencies. If a swab gets stuck, the hook can be used to pull it out backwards.
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Author: RAB
Date: 2012-02-21 12:02
PLEASE !!!
Be very careful trying to remove the swab by putting something in the bore or tone holes to "help" get the swab un-stuck. I have had clients damage tone holes or put scratches in the bore.
I normally use a wooden dowel and GENTLY go from the opposite end that the swab was placed into the instrument. I Make sure it (the dowel) is not touching the vent tube or the thumb tube. The instrument is straight up on a flat surface and I gently apply pressure on the dowel. I use a small rawhide mallet to GENTLY TAP the dowel.
GO SLOW if you try this. Make sure to stay away from the bore and if in doubt. Take it to a repair person you trust.
I hope this helps.
Rodney Berry
Repair Dept
Muncy Winds Music Company
Boone, N.C.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-21 12:35
Long-nosed surgical forceps are good for removing stuck pullthroughs - they have a ratchet so will remain clamped shut once closed which is very useful.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-21 23:41
Just tried the barrel-end-first method with respect to tone hole moisture....... wouldn't you know it, so far IT WORKS !!!!
I had never had this suggested before and I think there may be something to it.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: much2bored
Date: 2012-02-22 03:04
I've always swabbed from the barrel down because my old band director told me to. She said to do it that way because "that's the direction the air flows." I had no idea that it actually makes a difference.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2012-02-22 23:03
My teacher was paranoid of cork grease getting down the bore especially on the bigger multi-section clarinets that couldn't be cleaned with a complete drop-through. Therefore, I've always taken the joints on any of the big clarinets and swabbed from the tenon end up, thus lowering the exposure of the swab to cork grease. I don't know if there is reason for this paranoia but it made sense to me.
I play oboe too and after sticking a few swabs in the horn, I found an especially narrow swab for the upper joint. Even with it, I go tenon side in and then retract it as soon as it feels snug. So far so good. My Buffet Prestige alto clarinet has to be treated the same way as even the silk Bb swabs gets stuck in the upper joint of it.
Anyway shoot holes in these theories. I'd love to know I've been doing something crazy for 40 years!
eefer guy
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-02-22 23:12
Cork grease shouldn't get into the bore if used sparingly. It will only get onto the sides of the tenons and sockets and nowhere else and when the clarinet is assembled, there's far less chance of any cork grease from the exposed sockets or tenons getting onto the pullthrough.
The only time you will risk getting cork grease in the bore and clogging up toneholes (especially the top joint throat, trill key toneholes and speaker tube) is if you wipe the sockets dry with your pullthrough as it'll get covered in grease which in turn gets transferred to the bore when you use it, so always dry your sockets with a piece of kitchen roll or heavy duty paper towel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-02-24 15:45
sorry to have missed the start of this thread.
YES, with the clarinet constrained by the neck strap, I run my swab from the barrel down. I use a $12 silk swab, and it seems to fluff out and take the water out of the larger lower end of the horn.
Out of habit now, I usually swab barrel to bell when I make my last pull before putting the horn away.
Bob Phillips
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2012-02-25 04:58
Bob, wouldn't be easier to remove the strap while swabbing? (even barrel first?)
Laurie
Laurie (he/him)
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